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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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 Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: Lee Iacocca - Madman |
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At least, that's what some here would have you believe. I mean, after all, he's raving and foaming at the mouth just like... me.
Where Have All the Leaders Gone?
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By Lee Iacocca with Catherine Whitney
Had Enough?
Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage? We should be screaming bloody murder. We've got a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car. But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, "Stay the course."
Stay the course? You've got to be kidding. This is America, not the damned Titanic. I'll give you a sound bite: Throw the bums out!
...The President of the United States is given a free pass to ignore the Constitution, tap our phones, and lead us to war on a pack of lies. Congress responds to record deficits by passing a huge tax cut for the wealthy (thanks, but I don't need it). The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs. While we're fiddling in Iraq, the Middle East is burning and nobody seems to know what to do. And the press is waving pom-poms instead of asking hard questions. That's not the promise of America my parents and yours traveled across the ocean for. I've had enough. How about you?
I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if you're not outraged. This is a fight I'm ready and willing to have.
My friends tell me to calm down. They say, "Lee, you're eighty-two years old. Leave the rage to the young people." I'd love to�as soon as I can pry them away from their iPods for five seconds and get them to pay attention. I'm going to speak up because it's my patriotic duty. I think people will listen to me. They say I have a reputation as a straight shooter. So I'll tell you how I see it, and it's not pretty, but at least it's real. I'm hoping to strike a nerve in those young folks who say they don't vote because they don't trust politicians to represent their interests. Hey, America, wake up. These guys work for us.
Who Are These Guys, Anyway?
...Some of us are sick and tired of people who call free speech treason. Where I come from that's a dictatorship, not a democracy.
...Where are the voices of leaders who can inspire us to action and make us stand taller? What happened to the strong and resolute party of Lincoln? What happened to the courageous, populist party of FDR and Truman? There was a time in this country when the voices of great leaders lifted us up and made us want to do better. Where have all the leaders gone?
The Test of a Leader
..."Nine Cs of Leadership."
CURIOSITY
...George W. Bush brags about never reading a newspaper. "I just scan the headlines," he says. Am I hearing this right? He's the President of the United States and he never reads a newspaper? Thomas Jefferson once said, "Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate for a moment to prefer the latter." Bush disagrees.
CREATIVE
..George Bush prides himself on never changing, even as the world around him is spinning out of control. God forbid someone should accuse him of flip-flopping. There's a disturbingly messianic fervor to his certainty...
COMMUNICATE
I'm not talking about running off at the mouth or spouting sound bites. I'm talking about facing reality and telling the truth. Nobody in the current administration seems to know how to talk straight anymore...
CHARACTER
That means knowing the difference between right and wrong and having the guts to do the right thing. Abraham Lincoln once said, "If you want to test a man's character, give him power." George Bush has a lot of power... he shows little regard for the grievous consequences. He has sent our troops (not to mention hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens) to their deaths�for what? To build our oil reserves? To avenge his daddy because Saddam Hussein once tried to have him killed? To show his daddy he's tougher? The motivations behind the war in Iraq are questionable, and the execution of the war has been a disaster. A man of character does not ask a single soldier to die for a failed policy.
COURAGE. I'm talking about balls. (That even goes for female leaders.) Swagger isn't courage. Tough talk isn't courage... Courage is a commitment to sit down at the negotiating table and talk.
If you're a politician, courage means taking a position even when you know it will cost you votes. Bush can't even make a public appearance unless the audience has been handpicked and sanitized...
CONVICTION
...Bush has set the all-time record for number of vacation days taken by a U.S. President�four hundred and counting...
It's no better on Capitol Hill. Congress was in session only ninety-seven days in 2006. That's eleven days less than the record set in 1948, when President Harry Truman coined the term do-nothing Congress. Most people would expect to be fired if they worked so little and had nothing to show for it. But Congress managed to find the time to vote itself a raise. Now, that's not leadership.
CHARISMA
Charisma is the quality that makes people want to follow you. It's the ability to inspire. People follow a leader because they trust him. That's my definition of charisma. Maybe George Bush is a great guy to hang out with at a barbecue or a ball game. But put him at a global summit where the future of our planet is at stake, and he doesn't look very presidential.
COMPETENT. That seems obvious, doesn't it? You've got to know what you're doing. More important than that, you've got to surround yourself with people who know what they're doing. Bush brags about being our first MBA President. Does that make him competent? Well, let's see. Thanks to our first MBA President, we've got the largest deficit in history, Social Security is on life support, and we've run up a half-a-trillion-dollar price tag (so far) in Iraq. And that's just for starters. A leader has to be a problem solver, and the biggest problems we face as a nation seem to be on the back burner.
COMMON SENSE
I call this Charlie Beacham's rule. When I was a young guy just starting out in the car business, one of my first jobs was as Ford's zone manager in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. My boss was a guy named Charlie Beacham, who was the East Coast regional manager. Charlie was a big Southerner, with a warm drawl, a huge smile, and a core of steel. Charlie used to tell me, "Remember, Lee, the only thing you've got going for you as a human being is your ability to reason and your common sense. If you don't know a dip of horseshit from a dip of vanilla ice cream, you'll never make it." George Bush doesn't have common sense. He just has a lot of sound bites. You know�Mr.they'll-welcome-us-as-liberators-no-child-left-behind-heck-of-a-job-Brownie-mission-accomplished Bush.
Former President Bill Clinton once said, "I grew up in an alcoholic home. I spent half my childhood trying to get into the reality-based world�and I like it here."
I think our current President should visit the real world once in a while.
The Biggest C is Crisis
Leaders are made, not born. Leadership is forged in times of crisis. It's easy to sit there with your feet up on the desk and talk theory. Or send someone else's kids off to war when you've never seen a battlefield yourself. It's another thing to lead when your world comes tumbling down.
On September 11, 2001, we needed a strong leader more than any other time in our history. We needed a steady hand to guide us out of the ashes. Where was George Bush? He was reading a story about a pet goat to kids in Florida when he heard about the attacks. He kept sitting there for twenty minutes with a baffled look on his face. It's all on tape. You can see it for yourself. Then, instead of taking the quickest route back to Washington and immediately going on the air to reassure the panicked people of this country, he decided it wasn't safe to return to the White House. He basically went into hiding for the day�and he told Vice President Dick Cheney to stay put in his bunker. We were all frozen in front of our TVs, scared out of our wits, waiting for our leaders to tell us that we were going to be okay, and there was nobody home.It took Bush a couple of days to get his bearings and devise the right photo op at Ground Zero.
That was George Bush's moment of truth, and he was paralyzed. And what did he do when he'd regained his composure? He led us down the road to Iraq�a road his own father had considered disastrous when he was President. But Bush didn't listen to Daddy. He listened to a higher father. He prides himself on being faith based, not reality based. If that doesn't scare the crap out of you, I don't know what will.
A Hell of a Mess
So here's where we stand. We're immersed in a bloody war with no plan for winning and no plan for leaving. We're running the biggest deficit in the history of the country. We're losing the manufacturing edge to Asia, while our once-great companies are getting slaughtered by health care costs. Gas prices are skyrocketing, and nobody in power has a coherent energy policy. Our schools are in trouble. Our borders are like sieves. The middle class is being squeezed every which way. These are times that cry out for leadership.
But when you look around, you've got to ask: "Where have all the leaders gone?" Where are the curious, creative communicators? Where are the people of character, courage, conviction, competence, and common sense? I may be a sucker for alliteration, but I think you get the point.
Name me a leader who has a better idea for homeland security than making us take off our shoes in airports and throw away our shampoo? ...Name me one leader who emerged from the crisis of Hurricane Katrina... Name me an industry leader who is thinking creatively about how we can restore our competitive edge in manufacturing. Who would have believed that there could ever be a time when "the Big Three" referred to Japanese car companies? ...Name me a government leader who can articulate a plan for paying down the debt, or solving the energy crisis, or managing the health care problem. The silence is deafening...
I have news for the gang in Congress. We didn't elect you to sit on your asses and do nothing and remain silent while our democracy is being hijacked and our greatness is being replaced with mediocrity. What is everybody so afraid of? That some bobblehead on Fox News will call them a name? Give me a break. Why don't you guys show some spine for a change?
Had Enough?
Hey, I'm not trying to be the voice of gloom and doom here. I'm trying to light a fire. I'm speaking out because I have hope. I believe in America. In my lifetime I've had the privilege of living through some of America's greatest moments. I've also experienced some of our worst crises�the Great Depression, World War II, the Korean War, the Kennedy assassination, the Vietnam War, the 1970s oil crisis, and the struggles of recent years culminating with 9/11... If I've learned one thing, it's this: You don't get anywhere by standing on the sidelines waiting for somebody else to take action... That's the challenge I'm raising in this book. It's a call to action for people who, like me, believe in America. It's not too late, but it's getting pretty close. So let's shake off the horse*s*h*i*t [stars mine] and go to work. Let's tell 'em all we've had enough. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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EFLTrainer:
I've got a suggestion for you that's sure to add spice to your life. Why don't you team up with regicide and pay a visit to Dallas, Texas. First you can hold a vigil at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, or maybe a seance. Then you can catch a Metro bus for the campus of SMU and stage a protest while the faculty Senate is mulling over GW Bush's planned presidential library. Maybe invited Cindy Sheehan to come on up from Crawford for the occasion. Then you can top off your trip with a visit to Irving to hang a banner on the stadium where the Cowboys play.
Just a thought... |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
EFLTrainer:
I've got a suggestion for you that's sure to add spice to your life. Why don't you team up with regicide and pay a visit to Dallas, Texas. First you can hold a vigil at Dealey Plaza in Dallas, or maybe a seance. Then you can catch a Metro bus for the campus of SMU and stage a protest while the faculty Senate is mulling over GW Bush's planned presidential library. Maybe invited Cindy Sheehan to come on up from Crawford for the occasion. Then you can top off your trip with a visit to Irving to hang a banner on the stadium where the Cowboys play.
Just a thought... |
Is that the best you can do? You're running scared.
Here we've got the prototypical neo-con lie: "I can't fight you on the facts, so I'll draw what I perceive to be negative associations to make your point appear invalid."
Brilliant, my boy! One of the most respected businessmen in American history says the same I do - throw the bums out! - and you've got NOTHING. So, you toss out an ad hominem.
Pathetic.
Have you got nothing for Mr. Iacocca? Where is your proof that he is a rabid, bushie-hater with no grip on reality, eh? C'mon! You can do it! |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
Have you got nothing for Mr. Iacocca? Where is your proof that he is a rabid, bushie-hater with no grip on reality, eh? C'mon! You can do it! |
Indeed. It would have been nice if the "professor" actually addressed Iacocca's points. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
y Lee Iacocca with Catherine Whitney
Had Enough?
Am I the only guy in this country who's fed up with what's happening? Where the hell is our outrage? We should be screaming bloody murder. We've got a gang of clueless bozos steering our ship of state right over a cliff, we've got corporate gangsters stealing us blind, and we can't even clean up after a hurricane much less build a hybrid car. But instead of getting mad, everyone sits around and nods their heads when the politicians say, "Stay the course." |
Well it is a tough world. Cooperate gangsters have been stealing the US blind for a long time is it more than now , it is not a great thing nevertheless the US has managed to get to a 13 trillion dollar economy.
You made lots of money off the system that you attack. Oh well
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Stay the course? You've got to be kidding. This is America, not the damned Titanic. I'll give you a sound bite: Throw the bums out! |
Well what is your strategy for the problems the US suffers? Easy to complain. Love to hear your solutions. I need the target practice. Put up or shut up.
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...The President of the United States is given a free pass to ignore the Constitution, |
The constitution gives people the right to life.
The US is under threat .
Listen to overseas converstaions.
The right to life in the constitution.
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and lead us to war on a pack of lies. |
The Bathists , Khomeni followers and the Al Qaedists have been after the US for a long time. That is not a lie.
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Congress responds to record deficits by passing a huge tax cut for the wealthy (thanks, but I don't need it). |
Not my cup of tea, but many intelligent people make convincing arguments that tax cuts increase productivity. Why don't you respond to that?
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The most famous business leaders are not the innovators but the guys in handcuffs. |
Capitalism sucks, but in North Korea there is no capitalism .
Gee why is that the US has enjoyed faster economic growth than most of Europe?
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While we're fiddling in Iraq, the Middle East is burning and nobody seems to know what to do. |
What would you do? As I said the many in the middle east have been after the US for a long time.
Do I need to remind you that 70,000 trained in Al Qaeda camps in the 1990s.
while the US was protecting muslims in several countires? What was the problem .
If you have the time to compalin then you must have the time to answer.
Ever notice that no one in the mideast said a world when Saddam gassed muslim kurds? ]
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And the press is waving pom-poms instead of asking hard questions. That's not the promise of America my parents and yours traveled across the ocean for. I've had enough. How about you? |
As I said you are good at complaining. Lets here your solutions. We don't see any.
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I'll go a step further. You can't call yourself a patriot if you're not outraged. This is a fight I'm ready and willing to have. |
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You can't call yourslef a patriot if you don't acknowledge the most basic right Americans have is life. And freedom from terrorists is one freedom.
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My friends tell me to calm down. They say, "Lee, you're eighty-two years old. |
Well what you say is sort of whacky so is your mind still working.
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Leave the rage to the young people." I'd love to�as soon as I can pry them away from their iPods for five seconds and get them to pay attention. I'm going to speak up because it's my patriotic duty. I think people will listen to me. They say I have a reputation as a straight shooter. So I'll tell you how I see it, and it's not pretty, but at least it's real. I'm hoping to strike a nerve in those young folks who say they don't vote because they don't trust politicians to represent their interests. Hey, America, wake up. These guys work for us. |
Why no solutions. The US faces real dangers.
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Who Are These Guys, Anyway?
...Some of us are sick and tired of people who call free speech treason. Where I come from that's a dictatorship, not a democracy. |
Why do you deny people their right not only to question the government but also question those who question the government?
That is free speech too.
Maybe you ought not be telling others who is a patriot.
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...Where are the voices of leaders who can inspire us to action and make us stand taller? What happened to the strong and resolute party of Lincoln? What happened to the courageous, populist party of FDR and Truman? There was a time in this country when the voices of great leaders lifted us up and made us want to do better. Where have all the leaders gone? |
people say Lincoln lied to get the US into war too.
By the way you are not a leader well not anymore you are not, you have no solutions.
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CURIOSITY
...George W. Bush brags about never reading a newspaper. "I just scan the headlines," he says. Am I hearing this right? He's the President of the United States and he never reads a newspaper? Thomas Jefferson once said, "Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate for a moment to prefer the latter." Bush disagrees.
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Well I don't think you read the news as much as you talk or you would know that there are many in the world looking to destroy the US.
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CREATIVE
..George Bush prides himself on never changing, even as the world around him is spinning out of control. God forbid someone should accuse him of flip-flopping. There's a disturbingly messianic fervor to his certainty... |
Still waiting for you answers.
If you're a politician, courage means taking a position even when you know it will cost you votes. Bush can't even make a public appearance unless the audience has been handpicked and sanitized...
Bush on the otherhand doesn't follow the polls. Which is it ?
You blame him for never changing and now you blame him for not following the polls.
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...Bush has set the all-time record for number of vacation days taken by a U.S. President�four hundred and counting...
It's no better on Capitol Hill. Congress was in session only ninety-seven days in 2006. That's eleven days less than the record set in 1948, when President Harry Truman coined the term do-nothing Congress. Most people would expect to be fired if they worked so little and had nothing to show for it. But Congress managed to find the time to vote itself a raise. Now, that's not leadership. |
Nowadays the president can work just about anywhere.
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On September 11, 2001, we needed a strong leader more than any other time in our history. We needed a steady hand to guide us out of the ashes. Where was George Bush? He was reading a story about a pet goat to kids in Florida when he heard about the attacks. He kept sitting there for twenty minutes with a baffled look on his face. It's all on tape. You can see it for yourself. Then, instead of taking the quickest route back to Washington and immediately going on the air to reassure the panicked people of this country, he decided it wasn't safe to return to the White House. He basically went into hiding for the day�and he told Vice President *beep* Cheney to stay put in his bunker. We were all frozen in front of our TVs, scared out of our wits, waiting for our leaders to tell us that we were going to be okay, and there was nobody home.It took Bush a couple of days to get his bearings and devise the right photo op at Ground Zero. |
Al Qaeda planned the attack before Bush was even president. I wonder what ou would have done.
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. We're running the biggest deficit in the history of the country. |
as a % of GDP what is it? Why do you not answer that?
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We're losing the manufacturing edge to Asia, while our once-great companies are getting slaughtered by health care costs. Gas prices are skyrocketing, and nobody in power has a coherent energy policy. Our schools are in trouble. Our borders are like sieves. The middle class is being squeezed every which way. These are times that cry out for leadersh |
The US has had these problems for a long time. We are still doing better than Europe or even Japan. Explain that you *beep*
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ame me a leader who has a better idea for homeland security than making us take off our shoes in airports and throw away our shampoo? ...Name me one leader who emerged from the crisis of Hurricane Katrina... Name me an industry leader who is thinking creatively about how we can restore our competitive edge in manufacturing. Who would have believed that there could ever be a time when "the Big Three" referred to Japanese car companies? ...Name me a government leader who can articulate a plan for paying down the debt, or solving the energy crisis, or managing the health care problem. The silence is deafening... |
What is your answer for homeland security and the war against the US by the Bathists , the Khomeni lovers and the Al Qaedaists.
Japan is kicking the hell out of Detroit never the less the US is way ahead of Japan in most everything else other than consumer electronics. and we still managed to beat them in baseball.
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I have news for the gang in Congress. We didn't elect you to sit on your asses and do nothing and remain silent while our democracy is being hijacked and our greatness is being replaced with mediocrity. What is everybody so afraid of? That some bobblehead on Fox News will call them a name? Give me a break. Why don't you guys show some spine for a change? |
Really our democracy is being hijacked? Then why was the otherside able to be elected?
Fox news is one sided , but not as one sided as you.
anyway a lot of complaints and no answers.
Are you afraid to give no answers, or are you a 9-11 truther (it is all the fault of Bush no we don't need any answers ) like ELF Trainer |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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EFLTrainer:
Indignation is one thing; ranting another. This excerpt is laden with hyperbole that borders on ranting. He almost sounds like a grumpy old man who's inhaled too much paint thinner while working in the woodshed. Iacocca collapses several separate issues into one and accuses Bush of fomenting all of them. Not exactly a reasoned disagreement of opinion.
For instance, Bush has never accused his detractors of being unpatriotic. What he has said, and rightly so, is that talk of timetables for troop withdrawals and premature panic do play into the hands of the enemy whether such is intended or not. How can it do otherwise?
Much if not most of what he says against the Bush Administration could be said against any number of politicians in Washington nowadays on both sides of the aisle. And it can also be said that never in modern times--except briefly during Nixon's second term and with Truman after his firing of MacArthur--has a president been subjected to so much vitriole.
His criticism of Bush and 9-11 is taken right out of Michael Moore. I find it astonishing that Iacocca cannot at least acknowledge that Bush did well in the wake of the terrorist attacks, as the vast majority of polled Americans agreed at the time. And even Bob Woodward was supportive of Bush during this time and in the campaign against the Taliban. But Iacocca runs roughshod over Bush's first term in office.
I could go on but why bother? Would anything I write sway you? So go ahead and try to convince yourself I'm "running scared." You're good at being delusional.  |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| EFLTrainerFor instance, Bush has never accused his detractors of being unpatriotic. |
Bull. Shiit. You and he (your pimp, Dumbya) are both bald-faced liars. He has questioned the patriotism of those opposing him over and over and over. This you know. Thus, you lie.
Nothing new.
Bush did well in wake of 9/11? Bull. He did NOTHING. Cheney did nothing. THEY did nothing. Oh, Afghanistan? What did they do? Blow up Afghanistan? Did they stop any terrorism? No. Did they catch bin Ladin? No. They did set up a photo op, but catch him? No. That might have been a tad inconvenient given his CIA handling and all... Is Afghanistan under control? No.
Did they do something right in NY? No. Everything wrong. Lied about the air. Did nothing to investigate. (Didn't really need to, now did they.)
You're delusional or paid to post here. Iacocca is a brilliant man. A great leader. Try again, but this time actually deal with his arguments rather than engaging in fallacial (or is that falacio?) arguments.
You have nothing. You are a 30 percenter, boy. You are the cook. By factual analysis *and* definition, YOU are the fringe. You, sir, are a damned liar. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| EFLTrainerFor instance, Bush has never accused his detractors of being unpatriotic. |
Bull. Shiit. You and he (your pimp, Dumbya) are both bald-faced liars. He has questioned the patriotism of those opposing him over and over and over. This you know. Thus, you lie.
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Bush claims a lot his detractors aren't supporting the troops. That's more or less saying one is unpatriotic. When you say Bush has questioned their patriotism, what do you mean exactly? Can you supply such a quote? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| EFLTrainerFor instance, Bush has never accused his detractors of being unpatriotic. |
Bull. Shiit. You and he (your pimp, Dumbya) are both bald-faced liars. He has questioned the patriotism of those opposing him over and over and over. This you know. Thus, you lie.
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Bush claims a lot his detractors aren't supporting the troops. That's more or less saying one is unpatriotic. When you say Bush has questioned their patriotism, what do you mean exactly? Can you supply such a quote? |
Why ask a question you've already answered yourself?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/30/173930/792
Now, got anything to say on the topic? In case you both forgot, it was a post on the thoughts of Iacocca on the current administration. Given his history and standing, how do you dismiss him and his comments? Hmmmm...? Anyone? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Notice he offers no solutions.
You are right Bush didn't catch Bin Laden Bush didn't stop terror. Just like the president before him. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Helen Thomas gets it, too.
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...Asked about her famous quote that Bush is the �worst president in history,� she reminded me that she said so in 2002. She says that while he could have improved, he didn�t and hasn�t yet, and I don�t think she�s holding her breath waiting for that to change. Clearly the issue that makes Ms. Thomas the most emotional and forceful in her assertion about the failures of this administration is the war. She called it �unconscionable� and a �quagmire.�
...Ms. Thomas very much wants straight answers from Bush. �We had a choke hold on Saddam,� and some of the most strict and painful sanctions on a third world nation ever, to the point of causing �children to die.� Ms. Thomas really is not satisfied that the war, on top of that ugly history, is excusable. �There was never any threat from a third world country to the most powerful military on earth,� she says.
...Asked about the differences between this administration and previous ones when it comes to press relations, Ms. Thomas nails it: �secrecy.� ...Ms. Thomas laments that there are �unknown motives� at play in the White House, and more damning is her estimation of why they are so secret: because their hidden motivations for policy would be �unacceptable� if made clear to the public.
...Ms. Thomas strikes me as a person who is impatient with a lot of the dissembling and excuse-making in our political society today, and I can understand why. She�s really unhappy with the war, its lack of a meaningful raison d�etre, and the senseless bloodshed and violence in Iraq. She obviously is tired of cowboy imperialism, and mentioned several times that the US has no right to pick on small and powerless nations in a poorly covered attempt to control their resources.
...Ms. Thomas had some sharp warnings for us, from the benefit of her direct experience in similar history. �We left Vietnam by our fingertips, people on rooftops,� and reminded us of other ugly images of the last days of that �police action.� Further, �100,000 private contractors is no way to go,� and while she isn�t prone to using the CT/foily language, it�s clear what she meant by that. �Everyone� (American) needs to leave Iraq �right now� because the war is little better than a �crass approach to controlling oil� that denies Iraqis their rights as human beings �to live.� |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Notice he offers no solutions. |
It's an EXCERPT from a BOOK, you moron. Further, he did offer a solution: throw the bums out. That IS the solution. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| EFLTrainerFor instance, Bush has never accused his detractors of being unpatriotic. |
Bull. Shiit. You and he (your pimp, Dumbya) are both bald-faced liars. He has questioned the patriotism of those opposing him over and over and over. This you know. Thus, you lie.
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Bush claims a lot his detractors aren't supporting the troops. That's more or less saying one is unpatriotic. When you say Bush has questioned their patriotism, what do you mean exactly? Can you supply such a quote? |
Why ask a question you've already answered yourself?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/30/173930/792
Now, got anything to say on the topic? In case you both forgot, it was a post on the thoughts of Iacocca on the current administration. Given his history and standing, how do you dismiss him and his comments? Hmmmm...? Anyone? |
Where in your link does Bush question another's patriotism? I see Cheney doing it once. Certainly one can lay that on the "Bush White House". The president doesn't have to soil himself...
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| Why ask a question you've already answered yourself? |
I'm asking you to carefully define your terms.
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| You're delusional or paid to post here. Iacocca is a brilliant man. A great leader. |
And his track record, as head of Chrysler, on protecting the environment? A great leader still? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Quote: |
. We're running the biggest deficit in the history of the country. |
as a % of GDP what is it? Why do you not answer that? |
What are your figures?
http://zfacts.com/p/318.html
It would seem as a % of GDP, it went up under Reagan/Bush, down under Clinton, and up with Bush II.
So right not the highest as a % of GDP in history. There was that WWII thing. But what does that figure really mean? The GDP is not the government's budget. If I make 50K a year and spend 60K a year and next year I plan to spend 65K a year, what does it matter what the GDP is? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| And his track record, as head of Chrysler, on protecting the environment? A great leader still? |
Comment on Iacocca and how it is possible to portray him, as I have been for having the same views, whacked out, raging nutcase.
Or shut up, punk. |
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