| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
icicle
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Gyeonggi do Korea
|
 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: Public School trying to add a penalty clause to a contract |
 |
|
I would appreciate some advice.
I am working for a public middle school in Korea.
I have just been told that they plan to make (?have been told to make) a change to the contract that I signed to add a clause that will see them take out the 300,000 won a month as the "security for damage in accommodation bond".
I did chose the school that I am at because there was no clause which included the 300,000 month "deposit". I would not have signed a contract which included it. I am qualified enough to have had some choice about where I ended up teaching.
So far the only mention of this has been by the co-teacher who has been handing many of the settling in things with me (and who probably has the best English of the four English teachers I work with). This was made while we were walking to a class. My immediate reaction at the time was the say that I thought it was illegal. That was my understanding based on what I had read at that point. It was then left as something we would talk about later ... and that has not happened yet ... and hopefully won't happen today. I wanted time to research it properly before I responded. I am otherwise fairly happy with my school (I have been here almost a month now).
Where do I stand if I refuse to sign a new contract including this clause?
I would appreciate some advice/opinions before I need to respond to this.
Icicle |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: Public School trying to add a penalty clause to a contra |
|
|
| icicle wrote: |
I would appreciate some advice.
I am working for a public middle school in Korea.
I have just been told that they plan to make (?have been told to make) a change to the contract that I signed to add a clause that will see them take out the 300,000 won a month as the "security for damage in accommodation bond".
I did chose the school that I am at because there was no clause which included the 300,000 month "deposit". I would not have signed a contract which included it. I am qualified enough to have had some choice about where I ended up teaching.
So far the only mention of this has been by the co-teacher who has been handing many of the settling in things with me (and who probably has the best English of the four English teachers I work with). This was made while we were walking to a class. My immediate reaction at the time was the say that I thought it was illegal. That was my understanding based on what I had read at that point. It was then left as something we would talk about later ... and that has not happened yet ... and hopefully won't happen today. I wanted time to research it properly before I responded. I am otherwise fairly happy with my school (I have been here almost a month now).
Where do I stand if I refuse to sign a new contract including this clause?
I would appreciate some advice/opinions before I need to respond to this.
Icicle |
Tell them that you signed a contract and that's the one you intend to keep. Tell them that you will not sign. Also tell them that you are seriously considering going to the labour board about this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| 300,000 each month? Unacceptable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You don't have to sign anything. They are trying to con you. It would be interesting to find out whose bright idea this was.
You might want to do some reading on www.efl-law.com
I haven't checked lately, but I think there is some section of the website that covers this issue. I think it is illegal for them to try and force you to sign it, but once you sign it.....it then becomes legal 
Or something like that.
So
Don't sign anything! If they try to kick up a fuss, tell them you are certain that other schools would be happy to hire you. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I would just delay the signing and never get around to do doing it. Sometimes these things disappear on their own...if it doesn't then just refuse to sign it. But I would relax and not worry so much...it may just go away when they realize that you won't agree. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| some waygug-in wrote: |
| I think it is illegal for them to try and force you to sign it, but once you sign it.....it then becomes legal |
Yup. If you don't sign it, they are bound by Labor Law that states such deposits are not allowed (without all parties agreeing). Once you sign it, then you are bound by contract law and it is legal for them to take it. Course, they can't FORCE you to sign it. If they fired you for not signing it, that is actionable by the Labor office for wrongful termination.
Don't sign it. As one poster already said, tell them you have already signed a contract and you intend to honour it, and you expect them to HONOUR it as well. They are welcome to put the clause in the next year's contract (which you are then free to refuse and go to another school). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:52 am Post subject: Re: Public School trying to add a penalty clause to a contra |
|
|
| icicle wrote: |
I would appreciate some advice.
I am working for a public middle school in Korea.
I have just been told that they plan to make (?have been told to make) a change to the contract that I signed to add a clause that will see them take out the 300,000 won a month as the "security for damage in accommodation bond".
I did chose the school that I am at because there was no clause which included the 300,000 month "deposit". I would not have signed a contract which included it. I am qualified enough to have had some choice about where I ended up teaching.
So far the only mention of this has been by the co-teacher who has been handing many of the settling in things with me (and who probably has the best English of the four English teachers I work with). This was made while we were walking to a class. My immediate reaction at the time was the say that I thought it was illegal. That was my understanding based on what I had read at that point. It was then left as something we would talk about later ... and that has not happened yet ... and hopefully won't happen today. I wanted time to research it properly before I responded. I am otherwise fairly happy with my school (I have been here almost a month now).
Where do I stand if I refuse to sign a new contract including this clause?
I would appreciate some advice/opinions before I need to respond to this.
Icicle |
If you sign it they will take a 900,000 won deposit. 300k per month for 3 months - standard in all current government FT contracts. If you signed an old contract it may not have the deposit clause.
Look at a current contract AND if they insist that you sign an amendment to accomodate this for them, MAKE DAMN SURE you get the benefits of the current contract as well - like 14 WORKING days vacation instead of just 14 calendar days, max of 2 x 1 weeks camps per summer and winter break, max of 20 hours per week of camp, being able to bank overtime for additional days off if you prefer (your choice), etc.
If you refuse to sign it they cannot legally take the deposit AND if they do you can file a complaint with the labor board and they will reverse the decision.
The good news is, if you allow it, that the only people who have lost their deposits with a public school were those who pulled a runner.
People who quit under the terms of the contract have, to the best of my knowledge, always gotten their deposits back. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Public School trying to add a penalty clause to a contra |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
If you sign it they will take a 900,000 won deposit. 300k per month for 3 months - standard in all current government FT contracts. |
What?? I have a FT government contract and don't have this clause. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
icicle
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Gyeonggi do Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:15 am Post subject: Re: Public School trying to add a penalty clause to a contra |
|
|
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
If you sign it they will take a 900,000 won deposit. 300k per month for 3 months - standard in all current government FT contracts. |
What?? I have a FT government contract and don't have this clause. |
Until today I would have said the same thing ... I gather from what I have read today that it is what they seem to be moving towards ... What suprises me with this is trying to change it in an existing contract ... I fully expect that it will be a standard, non negotiable clause in my next contract if I stay in my current province ... which does have a lot of schools.
Icicle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scouse Mouse
Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Location: Cloud #9
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
I recently came over on a public school contract and I had this clause, as did all the people I know who have started recently.
I don't see it as a big deal though... I will get it back when I leave and it shows goodwill on my part. A public school gives you much more than a hagwon... they guarantee your contract phone if you ask them to!
The money is there to protect them against you running off and fleecing them. Considering the peace of mind that comes with a public school (and the fact that it would usually just get pissed up the wall at the weekend) it isn't such a horrible way to set aside some cash for when you leave. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: Re: Public School trying to add a penalty clause to a contra |
|
|
| Bibbitybop wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
If you sign it they will take a 900,000 won deposit. 300k per month for 3 months - standard in all current government FT contracts. |
What?? I have a FT government contract and don't have this clause. |
Article 18(Indemnity)
1.Employee shall be responsible for and protect Employer from any liability or damages arising from or in relation to any negligent, faulty, or illegal activity during the Term of Employment under this contract. For safety deposit, 300,000 Korean won per month will be deducted from Employee�s salary for the first 3 months of employment until it amounts to a total of 900,000 Korean won(even in case Employee finds their own housing). Married couples who are both employed by GPOE, sharing living accommodations, shall also be required to pay the cost respectively.
is in all current contracts. IF you do NOT have this clause then you are NOT on a current version of the FT contracts.
You may also be missing out on some of the benefits too... like banking time for extra vacation days or 14-19 WORKING days (as compared to 14 calendar days) for your PAID vacation.
Some people who were private hires by the schools and NOT through one of the government plans may also have different contracts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The good news is, if you allow it, that the only people who have lost their deposits with a public school were those who pulled a runner.
People who quit under the terms of the contract have, to the best of my knowledge, always gotten their deposits back. |
hmm...here's hoping.
My situation:
I wasn't sure if I was going to re-sign. I didn't plan on staying the full year (leaving in the summer....5 months in) but I didn't want to spring it on them. So (I'm in busan) i phoned the EPIK ELI head in busan and told her my situation. She got back to me and said it was alright; that I could quit early.
So I hope to get that money back...though at this point in time, it's like, free money to me if I get it.
Now, my contract saying NOTHING about how "Employee may terminate the contract if....". I don't know if that means that I simply CANNOT terminuate the contract OR if it means that I can terminate for any reason.
I have a whole schpiel to give them if this becomes an issue but it certainly won't guaruntee me anything.
What do y'all think? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
xCustomx
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wenise Kim never gave me anything in writing when I asked her to clarify the 2 contracts that GEPIK sent out. IMO GEPIK really screwed up because there are 2 versions of the contracts floating around, and you need to be careful which one you sign. I think the one without the 900k deposit has a couple of good things in it like the 1 hour of OT = 2 hours of paid vacation which can be banked. But the new contract with the 900k is only 1 hour OT = 1 hours paid vacation. There are however 14 working days of vacation in the new contract compared to 14 total days in the old one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lowpo
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| xCustomx wrote: |
| Wenise Kim never gave me anything in writing when I asked her to clarify the 2 contracts that GEPIK sent out. IMO GEPIK really screwed up because there are 2 versions of the contracts floating around, and you need to be careful which one you sign. I think the one without the 900k deposit has a couple of good things in it like the 1 hour of OT = 2 hours of paid vacation which can be banked. But the new contract with the 900k is only 1 hour OT = 1 hours paid vacation. There are however 14 working days of vacation in the new contract compared to 14 total days in the old one. |
Man, I was lucky. My school forgot to take the 300,000W deposit out of my pay. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
icicle
Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Location: Gyeonggi do Korea
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
I got the full version of the "new" contract on Friday after I had decided that I could put the "safety deposit" into the category of saving for when I leave (which I plan to do anyway) and not unnecessarily rock the boat in what is for me otherwise a good school situation ... and got in principal agreement for it not to happen in the first pay due this week... which would have created problems for me ... I asked for and got the weekend to think about it and confirm Monday morning ...
I then, almost as an afterthought asked for the copy of the new contract so I could read that clause over the weekend ... That was the only thing that we talked about so I assumed that was the only change ... I had signed a new contract after I arrived with what were largely cosmetic changes in terms of who the contract was with ... (It is a Gyeonggi school). The new contract is the current 2007 Gyeonggi Contract .. and I after the advice that the new contract was better than the previous one I compared it to the last contract which I had signed ... There are a number of things in my current contract which are better than the new contract. I think that my current contract is probably an earlier version of the 2007 contract. There is not one clause in the contract which does not have some change to my current contract. Many are just a question of wording ... but I currently have a 30 day notice period with resignation and the new contract has a 60 day notice period. On the flip side the new working hours clause with the option of overtime translating into holidays is not a bad thing (not that I have had any overtime yet) ... I already have the 14 working days leave clause ... I also accepted a salary of 2.2 rather than the 2.1 which I would have got from the GEPIK contract at the time. So I have some negotiating to do tomorrow .. Before I read and compared the contracts I was going to suggest that we just did an amendment to the current contract to add in the deposit clause rather than sign a new contract ... Or until I realised how many changes there were to make other changes as an amendment ... But the changes I am ok with cover so much of the new contract that I think it may be "easier" to negotiate for keeping things like the 30 day notice period and my 2.2 salary .... Tomorrow I will see how true that is ...
Thank you for the feedback that you gave me ... It confirmed what I thought was the case ... And gave me the freedom to make the decision I chose knowing what the legal position was ... and the fact that I do like my current school ... and have no plans to break the contract ...
Icicle |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
