|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Missile Command Kid
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: Foreign language schools moving away from TOEFL? |
 |
|
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200704/200704200020.html
Anybody hear about this? One of the teachers at my hagwon was concerned that if the foreign language academies move away from TOEFL, it will have a serious impact on the hagwon industry as a whole. There was supposed to be a vote sometime tonight in Busan - anybody know anything?
EDIT: http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/204357.html
Looks like the foreign language schools are moving away from TOEFL. Wow. In my hagwon, we have five middle school and one high school class specifically dedicated to TOEFL. Most of these middle school students take the test in order to better their chances in foreign universities and foreign language schools, but now that reason has been sliced into two. I don't know how many of you this is going to affect, but this is a very substantial component of my teaching load - wow. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Crowzone
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| It just means they'll be moving to some other test, which you will soon be focusing on instead. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Missile Command Kid
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Crowzone wrote: |
| It just means they'll be moving to some other test, which you will soon be focusing on instead. |
The other tests are a joke. The TOEFL exam, for all its flaws, tests competency in written English and the ability to speak English. These should be taught by a native speaker. TEPS, TOEIC, and the other tests out there merely test listening and reading skills. It's not like I'm worried about my job - I'm heading back to Canada in just over a month - but quite frankly all of my students, from middle school 1 to high school 2, should be able to ace any of the reading or listening tests. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gsxr750r
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's become too difficult for Koreans to teach for , and too difficult for students who can't speak, to take. The interesting thing is, the reason many of them take TOEFL is because they need it to enter schools overseas. That fact isn't going to change no matter how much they claim to be "going away" from it. Demand for the test is, and will be, very high. It's all posturing.
I see this as a bunch of whining and threats on the part of gov't and schools because Korea is pissed over being bullied by the changes. There is also the issue that not enough people could get in to take the test, as someone else mentioned elsewhere. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Missile Command Kid
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gsxr750r wrote: |
| It's become too difficult for Koreans to teach for , and too difficult for students who can't speak, to take. The interesting thing is, the reason many of them take TOEFL is because they need it to enter schools overseas. That fact isn't going to change no matter how much they claim to be "going away" from it. Demand for the test is, and will be, very high. It's all posturing. |
I'm not so sure. So long as those 27-odd foreign language schools won't require TOEFL scores from middle school 3 students, demand for the test will drop *sharply*. Remember, people going to those schools don't always do it because they want to study abroad. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oh-Ran-Ji
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Moved to this forum at the request of the OP. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 1:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I've actually heard people argue that the new speaking component of the IBT is a direct conspiracy against Koreans. Apparently the Americans are annoyed at all the Koreans succeeding at their universities and schools, that they have, in conjunction with an international testing board, specifically designed a test that will focus too much on a part of language that Koreans (specifically) have difficulty with and need to rely on foreigners to teach. This, combined with the recent 'conspiracy' to keep Koreans from signing up for the test may cause a dip for some time, but it will swing right back up again as soon as they realize that they need it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Missile Command Kid
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Anybody else TOEFL that has an opinion on this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Novernae wrote: |
| I've actually heard people argue that the new speaking component of the IBT is a direct conspiracy against Koreans. Apparently the Americans are annoyed at all the Koreans succeeding at their universities and schools, that they have, in conjunction with an international testing board, specifically designed a test that will focus too much on a part of language that Koreans (specifically) have difficulty with and need to rely on foreigners to teach. This, combined with the recent 'conspiracy' to keep Koreans from signing up for the test may cause a dip for some time, but it will swing right back up again as soon as they realize that they need it. |
This is not true. I know people involved in the design of the ibtTOEFL. The real focus for the shift to a speaking component was universities' complaints about students who scored well, but couldn't interact effectively when they arrived in America. More specifically, the concern was Chinese students. The test makers also wanted to design a test that would reward actual language study, and not cram school memorization strategies. The new test has been in the works for over 10 years (more like 15); no conspiracy against a particular group of NNEST teachers would hold together that long without word or document slipping out.
My question is - since the TOEFL is specifically not applicable to students under the age of 15, what are middle school students doing preparing for it. Oh, I know, every parent thinks their kid is the exception who can do it at that age. Madness!
Edit: Fixed typo.
Last edited by Woland on Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm all for assessing the knowledge, (meaning, communicative ability and real creative fluency) of all learners. !@!!! About time. As we say, "sink or swim...."
DD |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Woland wrote: |
| Novernae wrote: |
| I've actually heard people argue that the new speaking component of the IBT is a direct conspiracy against Koreans. |
This is not true. |
Don't worry. I didn't fall for the argument.  The argument came from my boss, who is as American as she is Korean, but sometimes these Korean conspiracy theories come out of her mouth and shock us all. We've hinted at our opinions when this one comes up, but she is our boss, so we dodn't fully challenge her on it.
| Woland wrote: |
| My question is - since the TOEFL is specifically not applicable to students under the age of 15, what are middle school students doing preparing for it. Oh, I know, every parent thinks their kid is the exception who can do it at that age. Madness! |
That's always been my beef with the language learning system here. I hate looking at elementary and middle school students' vocabulary books (from which they have to memorize 50-150 words a day) and seeing words for concepts I know they haven't even learned in Korean (or in life) yet! Let alone the frustration of spending time teaching essay writing to kids who don't understand enough English to understand an agree or disagree topic enough to be able to say which side their opinion represents. Not to mention the concepts represented in the topics. I can't imagine having written an essay on truth and bias in media in grade seven in my own language, let alone my second!
I don't fully agree with your reading of the situation being the parents believing their kids can do it; I think it goes deeper than that. Sure the parents push for their kids to be in higher levels than they should be, or to do books beyond their grasp, but it's a countrywide problem of valuing 'education' over learning and information over knowledge. There is no linkage between subjects here. My elementary school kids are fascinated when things like math or even history come up in the stories we read. I had one grade four student stop me on a particularly interesting day and say, "Teacher, this isn't just English class, it's math class, too!" It's like it had never entered her head that English was a language, like Korean, that we used to express everything. She can be forgiven for that, being in Grade four, but the education system can't be forgiven for presenting English as an isolated bit of information to be memorized, which leads them to believe fluency tests can be crammed for.
edit: You say you know people who were involved in the test. Can you explain why the i from Internet (a proper noun) is lower case in the title? We've been wondering that ever since we first started teaching it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ThePoet
Joined: 15 May 2004
Location: No longer in Korea - just lurking here
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know of a Hakwan that is moving away from the TOEFL this month and beginning, instead, to offer TEPS. They state that Korean universities and government are actually pushing the TEPS more as it is a) internal - the money all stays in Korea, and b) more readily accessible.
Poet |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fresh Prince
Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Location: The glorious nation of Korea
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Woland wrote: |
My question is - since the TOEFL is specifically not applicable to students under the age of 15, what are middle school students doing preparing for it. Oh, I know, every parent thinks their kid is the exception who can do it at that age. Madness! |
I've had a lot of middle school students that have spent the majority of their free time memorizing vocabulary. They can't pronounce any of the words correctly or use the words in a sentence but would likely score very high on a multiple choice test. Sadly, a lot of the words they memorized are outdated and never used. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kurva anjad
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Novernae wrote: |
| I've actually heard people argue that the new speaking component of the IBT is a direct conspiracy against Koreans. Apparently the Americans are annoyed at all the Koreans succeeding at their universities and schools, that they have, in conjunction with an international testing board, specifically designed a test that will focus too much on a part of language that Koreans (specifically) have difficulty with and need to rely on foreigners to teach. This, combined with the recent 'conspiracy' to keep Koreans from signing up for the test may cause a dip for some time, but it will swing right back up again as soon as they realize that they need it. |
I have friends back in the Ivy league schools who complain differently. They are often upset that Koreans that can barely speak or comprehend English are accepted to Yale & Harvard over extremely competent American students. They become even more upset when they discover that many Korean students are actually mediocre Ivy League students, and the ones that do get top grades often pay others to write their papers and even take exams in their stead.
One thing that does surprise me is that for the supposed intelligence of those "Elite" American universities, they have not figured out how terrible the school system is in Korea, not to mention the high levels of cheating. I thought those Ivy league places were all about integrity. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Novernae
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
|
| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ThePoet wrote: |
I know of a Hakwan that is moving away from the TOEFL this month and beginning, instead, to offer TEPS. They state that Korean universities and government are actually pushing the TEPS more as it is a) internal - the money all stays in Korea, and b) more readily accessible.
Poet |
My school switched to teps for the third year middle schoolers because the teachers didn't feel that there would be enough time to prepare them for the Toefl, which was not really even a requirement for entrance into the schools the kids were aiming for. The parents agreed and all except for two students switched focus. Of the two who stayed with Toefl, one lived in England for many years and was signed up for two iBTs already, and the other is studying in the US next semester and will take the test there. The see the international value of it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
