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mrsquirrel
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: Forgiveness |
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| Forgiveness is the mental, and/or spiritual process of ceasing to feel resentment, indignation or anger against another person for a perceived offence, difference or mistake, or ceasing to demand punishment or restitution[1]. This definition, however, is subject to much philosophical critique. Forgiveness may be considered simply in terms of the person who forgives, in terms of the person forgiven and/or in terms of the relationship between the forgiver and the person forgiven. In some contexts, it may be granted without any expectation of compensation, and without any response on the part of the offender (for example, one may forgive a person who is dead). In practical terms, it may be necessary for the offender to offer some form of acknowledgment, apology, and/or restitution, or even just ask for forgiveness, in order for the wronged person to believe they are able to forgive.[1 |
So those of you who believe in a religion that practices forgiveness if/when the Daves Cafe Nonce is caught will you forgive him? |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Only if he finds God, like that nice football player who was forcing dogs to fight to the death. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Forgiveness |
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| mrsquirrel wrote: |
| ...it may be necessary for the offender to offer some form of acknowledgment, apology, and/or restitution |
rot in jail for 25 years or get castrated and then it'll be easier for many to forgive |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| I learned the hard way over the years that "Forgiveness" means "You have permission to do it again" in most people's minds. I don't give it easily anymore. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| I learned the hard way over the years that "Forgiveness" means "You have permission to do it again" in most people's minds. I don't give it easily anymore. |
Forgiveness actually means "You don't have to pay me back for the hurt you've caused."
It's damned hard to forgive someone when the hurt isn't directly against you though. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I consider forgiveness to be reserved for people who have impacted you directly. While this guy is horrible (and I am preparing my background check copies, again, for my school because I expect a note to come down the pipeline soon), what he has done hasn't DIRECTLY affected me.
I think of forgiveness more for friends, family, lovers. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Also, isn't the Christian idea of forgiveness only directed to forgiveness of Original Sin, committed by Adam and Eve? Other than that religious folk don't seem particularly forgiving. |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm more interested in the idea of atonement. It's great when somebody sees the error of their ways, but an apology isn't enough. What have they done to try and right the wrongs? What have they done to offset the negative karma they spawned? What have they done to ensure that what they did doesn't happen again? The US is a very forgiving society, and it bothers me that there's not much talk about atonement. There's an awful lot of talk about lengthy prison sentences, apologies---"I'm sorry for what happened, it was an unfortunate incident"  ---and religioius conversion, but its rare when you find somebody interested in atonement, or somebody who has atoned for their wrongs. I believe in second chances, but only when that person makes an effort to correct and develop themselves. |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Also, isn't the Christian idea of forgiveness only directed to forgiveness of Original Sin, committed by Adam and Eve? Other than that religious folk don't seem particularly forgiving. |
Not one tiny bit. It's obvious we're supposed to forgive each other.
| Quote: |
Matthew 18 (NIV)
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f]
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart." |
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write of weigh
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Location: Mars
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Also, isn't the Christian idea of forgiveness only directed to forgiveness of Original Sin, committed by Adam and Eve? Other than that religious folk don't seem particularly forgiving. |
Havent u ever heard of the Lord Prayer?
"forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us."
that's as clear as day. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| Forgiveness actually means "You don't have to pay me back for the hurt you've caused." |
That's the thing. I feel punishment is needed. The Furies must be unleashed and Hell must follow. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| Also, isn't the Christian idea of forgiveness only directed to forgiveness of Original Sin, committed by Adam and Eve? Other than that religious folk don't seem particularly forgiving. |
Not one tiny bit. It's obvious we're supposed to forgive each other.
| Quote: |
Matthew 18 (NIV)
21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[f]
23"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[g] was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[h] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart." |
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Unfortunately practice and belief are two separate matters. Why else is the death penalty such a big great thing to Christians in the US? |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Atavistic wrote: |
I consider forgiveness to be reserved for people who have impacted you directly. While this guy is horrible (and I am preparing my background check copies, again, for my school because I expect a note to come down the pipeline soon), what he has done hasn't DIRECTLY affected me.
I think of forgiveness more for friends, family, lovers. |
I'd agree completely with this. Although I think what he did was bad, I can only judge from a distance, I don't see why I'd have to forgive him. If it affected me personally then there would need to be forgiveness.
"Treat people as you would expect to be treated" Is my general life rule.
On forgiveness, I live in a small town with about 30 000 people in. There's only 15 native teachers here. One of them who lives below me. When we go out, on two occasions previously and counting, he will end up by personally attacking me, on the way I dress, or me making too much noise, scrapping chairs, loud music between 1-3am when I'm obviously in bed. Normally I'd drop people like this and have nothing to do with them at all, letting them know what I thought of them. BUT I'm in a foreign country, and think that you just have to put up with these people. Am I technically forgiving him? Sitting with a group of people and there's people who don't like each other, just makes for a strained evening. But I won't split the group (as much as I would like to) and go to different places. Most of the other teachers feel the same about him to. Why forgive someone who's not going to learn or change? Or maybe I'm not forgiving him and just blocking it out.
Sorry this is my example of things that directly affect me. |
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write of weigh
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Location: Mars
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
Unfortunately practice and belief are two separate matters. Why else is the death penalty such a big great thing to Christians in the US? |
wtf? you can forgive somebody, however punishment is still in order or else society would become uncontrollable. And if we are talking about the Bible, executions were carried out in the old testament for what we would consider minor offenses.
Last edited by write of weigh on Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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trubadour
Joined: 03 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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So, in Christianity, is forgiveness univeral and unconditional or does it require repentance?
In Matt.18 21-35, quoted above, the King only forgives the servants when they beg him for it. I guess this is repentance.
Earlier it is said that if your eye offends thee pluck it out, stop causing sins.
So the responsibility seems to be on the sinner to repent before we can forgive him.
How can he ask for forgiveness from us?
If he did should we belive him? |
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