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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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 Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| He summed it up pretty well. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| caniff wrote: |
| He summed it up pretty well. |
As well as a stand up comedian dealing with stereotypes can.
I liked this page...
http://www.patcondell.net/Intelligence.html |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Islam is a polymorphic, broad and diverse set of beliefs and cultural aspirations/groupings. As such it cannot be "generalized " about in this fashion.
I would hope there would be more forthright dialogue and that those with criticisms would aim them at the appropriate place -- extremists and fundamentalists (of all religious persuasions).
This guy is a wacko and you can tell any bigot by their use of "these people" which he repeats and repeats. BJWD, your cheerleading of him, lumps you in the same category. You are also a stuck record.
His ass should be prosecuted, as an example for all Brits. Here is something off a British government website......
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Incitement to religious hatred
It is illegal to say anything or produce any written material that tries to persuade someone to commit a criminal offence against another race or group of people. This means that leaflets, flyers or speeches that promote crime against people because of their religion is against the law. This is called incitement to religious hatred. |
I for one am glad to live in a society that seeks reconcilliation and understanding of all forms of human expression and which suppresses those who would willing spread the lie of "the other" which is just an infantile and subconscious fear and insecurity .....
DD
PS. This is the same stupid shyte that was first whispered and then openly written about, spoken about, regarding the Jews (another very diverse set of religious and cultural beliefs). It is not an issue of free speech when it comes to talk like this.... |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the Brits won't enforce the new EU ban on religious hatred unless there's an obvious racist element: http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKL1761039720070417?feedType=RSS
This is bad news for Holocaust-deniers above all, I'd say.
Although the observer in this vid exaggerates and ridicules (and also uses ad hom) I don't see any hatred against a group or person because of national or ethnic origin, race or color. He ridicules beliefs and Islamic extremists with no clear racial/ethnic element.
I thought the bit about Muslim women covering their faces being "mentally ill" was unnecessary and rather offensive, but still, I think to prosecute this fellow for the content here would be absolutely zonkers and would actually encourage anti-Muslim feeling. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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His ass should be prosecuted, as an example for all Brits. Here is something off a British government website......
Quote:
Incitement to religious hatred
It is illegal to say anything or produce any written material that tries to persuade someone to commit a criminal offence against another race or group of people. This means that leaflets, flyers or speeches that promote crime against people because of their religion is against the law. This is called incitement to religious hatred.
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ahhhhhhhhhhh Now you've said it...now we can't criticize religion because it's inictement to hatred....Damn you to heck...I don't have to respect anybody's god, God, or any other made up crap.....You are the Islamist *beep* bar none.... |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| How long ago was the last bombing in Northern Ireland? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:38 am Post subject: |
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I think criticism of the Muslim community and certain Muslims, but it is not like this fellow is a poster boy for enlightened Europeans. He may be a nice fellow, but he engages in extreme stereotyping, generalizations.
I do agree with the part that not enough is done to go against the fanatics, protect women etc.... That comment about Muslim men being worthless and simply being men born with a *beep* and a Quran in another hand is pretty prejudicial. The guy's diatribe was seriously in bad taste even if he had some salient points. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| That comment about Muslim men being worthless and simply being men born with a *beep* and a Quran in another hand is pretty prejudicial. The guy's diatribe was seriously in bad taste even if he had some salient points. |
bad taste for sure....but the guy should go to jail??? come on who is the brown shirt around here.
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| postfundie wrote: |
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| That comment about Muslim men being worthless and simply being men born with a *beep* and a Quran in another hand is pretty prejudicial. The guy's diatribe was seriously in bad taste even if he had some salient points. |
bad taste for sure....but the guy should go to jail??? come on who is the brown shirt around here.
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Who said he should go to jail? Was that some poster above me? I was just commenting on the delivery of the video, the way the points were delivered....If we comment about the literal writings about various religions than you would have toss the Quran, Torah, and the Hindu Veddas into the dust bin, with all due respect to those faiths, and just keep the Buddhist sutras. I get the point one should not be zealous in ignoring the fanatics in Britain. I understand that, but also fanning the flames of division and whole sale generalizing is what divides people even more.
Last edited by Adventurer on Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| The Koran contains many incitements to religious hatred. According to the EU Muslims should be prosecuted for hate crimes. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:44 am Post subject: |
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| The Koran contains many incitements to religious hatred. According to the EU Muslims should be prosecuted for hate crimes. |
Well let's include the Jews and especially those Catholics -- the bible tells us so.....
As to "sending the guy to jail". I did not say, "put him in jail" but rather "prosecute". Governments should prosecute not just based on the fact of law but also the given climate in which those comments are issued. Prosecution is to protect the public interest and sends a signal to the public that this sort of "discourse" will not be tolerated. Prosecutors all the time, make decisions on what to prosecute and many of those times, the deciding factor is the public climate surrounding the case/crime. In my opinion, given the present climate - there is a dire need for the government to send signals and prosecute and not let this gather steam and all the "brown shirts " gain force.
It is in the interest of government to put out this sort of fire before it becomes real active hate..... Doesn't mean he goes to jail, means there is prosecution and the public tone is set...
DD |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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You are truly a confused man,
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In my opinion, given the present climate - there is a dire need for the government to send signals and prosecute and not let this gather steam and all the "brown shirts " gain force.
It is in the interest of government to put out this sort of fire before it becomes real active hate..... Doesn't mean he goes to jail, means there is prosecution and the public tone is set... |
Why is it soooooo see the difference between the right to criticize religion and the local neo-nazi who wants to whip up the mobs into a frenzy....the above posted video, although rather crude, is nothing of the sort.....You are a brown-shirt...prosecuting someone for being critical of religion......
I like this one from another thread
"slay the muslims wherever you find them" oops that should read slay the unbelievers....sorry Koranic hate speech there..... |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Why is it soooooo see the difference between the right to criticize religion and the local neo-nazi who wants to whip up the mobs into a frenzy....the above posted video, although rather crude, is nothing of the sort.....You are a brown-shirt...prosecuting someone for being critical of religion......
I like this one from another thread
"slay the muslims wherever you find them" oops that should read slay the unbelievers....sorry Koranic hate speech there..... |
I am standing by the norms of civil society. You seem the one vindictive and "stupid", revealing you wear no clothes with that ending attempt at humour.....
Simply put, everyone is free to criticize religion but not by disseminating literature (and for legal purposes a video is "literature") that states gross untruth and stereotype and exorts others to take action. Though this guy doesn't fit the definition to a tea, he still should be prosecuted so that others in society are told it is not right to grossly categorize others based on "religion".
I have studied the history of pogroms throughout the last 200 years and they are all of the same type.....first small newspaper articles in local papers, then in the national papers, then rallys, then people in the street burning down the Jews house screaming -- "they poison our water! they kiss the devil at night! they steal our money! they have sex with many people! They are corrupting our children! [and these are all claims that even happened in the 20th century, even in Britain and where Jews were killed, jailed].
This is the reason civil society must protect itself from the likes of this idiot video guy...
DD |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
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| The Koran contains many incitements to religious hatred. According to the EU Muslims should be prosecuted for hate crimes. |
Well let's include the Jews and especially those Catholics -- the bible tells us so.....
As to "sending the guy to jail". I did not say, "put him in jail" but rather "prosecute". Governments should prosecute not just based on the fact of law but also the given climate in which those comments are issued. Prosecution is to protect the public interest and sends a signal to the public that this sort of "discourse" will not be tolerated. Prosecutors all the time, make decisions on what to prosecute and many of those times, the deciding factor is the public climate surrounding the case/crime. In my opinion, given the present climate - there is a dire need for the government to send signals and prosecute and not let this gather steam and all the "brown shirts " gain force.
It is in the interest of government to put out this sort of fire before it becomes real active hate..... Doesn't mean he goes to jail, means there is prosecution and the public tone is set...
DD |
Ddeubel, where I agree with you is that you can take many foul quotes from various religious books. Generally, a larger percentage of Muslims will agree with very strict, old-fashioned old testament type thinking.
That does need to change.
As far as prosecuting that fellow, in Canada he wouldn't be as far as I know unless he were in a public square being very hateful and making the larger Muslim population and other Britons who may not be Muslims uncomfortable by condemning Muslims in general in a prejudicial manner, creating a harassing environment etc... He is not doing that. He is just expressing his opinion on some site. He is not doing anything to anyone.
People have a right to bad opinions whether they are Muslims, Brits, Canadians. I support his right to have aired that video even if I didn't like it that much. If we restrict people like him from airing such opinions, I think that is going way too far. |
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