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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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BBC article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6557779.stm
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BBC's concern at Gaza man's fate
Alan Johnston
Alan Johnston: Praised for his calmness and courage
A Palestinian group calling itself the Al Tawhid Al Jihad brigade has issued a claim that it has killed BBC Gaza correspondent Alan Johnston.
The BBC says it is aware of the reports and is deeply concerned, but stresses there is no independent verification.
In a statement faxed to news agencies, the group contrasts the attention given to Alan Johnston's captivity with that given to Palestinians held in prison.
Mr Johnston was abducted as he returned home from his Gaza office on 12 March.
The BBC has issued a statement saying it is deeply concerned about what it is hearing.
"But we stress that at this stage," it says, "it is rumour with no independent verification".
The Palestinian Authority said it, too, had no information confirming the fate of Alan Johnston.
Little known group
Senior Palestinian official Saeb Erekat repeated a call for those holding Mr Johnston to free him.
Palestinian cameramen stand on a jeep adorned with a poster of Alan Johnston
There have been numerous appeals for Mr Johnston's safe release
"Such despicable acts of abducting foreign journalists and others continue, the only (thing) that this is doing is destroying us as Palestinians, destroying the just cause of the Palestinian people," he told reporters.
"So I urge those who abducted Johnston, instead of circulating rumours, and I hope these rumours are only rumours, is to release him immediately and without any conditions."
A spokeswoman for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in London said they were also aware of the reports and were urgently looking into them.
The group claiming to have killed Mr Johnston is little known in Palestinian areas, the BBC's diplomatic correspondent James Robbins says.
Its name means Brigades of Holy War and Unity.
Protests
Since Mr Johnston's abduction, there have been many calls by both governments and individuals for his safe release.
Palestinian journalists staged several strikes in protest at his abduction and rallies were organised by Mr Johnston's BBC colleagues.
The BBC held a day of action on Thursday with al-Jazeera, CNN and Sky News joining a special live programme.
The unprecedented broadcast paid tribute to Alan Johnston's work and detailed the dangers for correspondents working in the Gaza Strip.
An online petition calling for Mr Johnston's release has gathered more than 30,000 signatures.
Alan Johnston's father, Graham, in a second broadcast appeal for his son to be freed immediately, told his kidnappers: "Please think about what this is doing to my family".
Kidnappers have abducted dozens of foreigners in Gaza, but none have been held for as long as Mr Johnston.
The 44-year-old, who is originally from Scotland, joined the BBC World Service in 1991 and has spent eight of the last 16 years as a correspondent, including periods in Uzbekistan and Afghanistan.
He has lived and worked in Gaza for three years and was the only Western reporter permanently based in the often violent and lawless territory.
His posting in Gaza had been due to end in late March. |
I sincerely hope that he isn't dead. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| My intuition tells me that he is not alive. If he were alive, there would have been demands before. As far as the radical group that claimed to have killed him, I am sure many local Palestinians would kill them for killing Johnston, because they actually liked him. This doesn't help the Palestinian cause when a reporter is killed. Whatever Palestinians do wrong is magnified. They are under a microscope, so they must work extra hard to ensure people are safe. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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The Guardian is also reporting something similar. This is just awful.  It's deeply disturbing the way journalists (as well as media offices and TV stations) are increasingly targetted in modern conflict. It's also (in this particular context) an own goal. Hezbollah later regretted targetting western journalists during the 80s as they realised that frightening the western media out of Lebanon meant there was nobody to tell their story to the western public. Looks like these stupid b@stards have not learnt from that - or are just a bunch of thugs that really don't care. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The Guardian is also reporting something similar. This is just awful. It's deeply disturbing the way journalists (as well as media offices and TV stations) are increasingly targetted in modern conflict. It's also (in this particular context) an own goal. Hezbollah later regretted targetting western journalists during the 80s as they realised that frightening the western media out of Lebanon meant there was nobody to tell their story to the western public. Looks like these stupid b@stards have not learnt from that - or are just a bunch of thugs that really don't care. |
The reality is that there are some ignorant Muslims who say all foreigners as imperialist enemies including a British reporter. The Gaza Strip has many tolerant people, but over the years it has become less and less of a tolerant place and more like a dangerous large ghetto that if you go into it becareful because you may not leave in one piece.
Obviously, killing journalists will help the detractors of Palestinians and Arabs in general. It definitely serves not their cause. Of course, the fact that hundreds of Gazans protested this shows many sensible Palestinians oppose such craziness, lawlessness. Unfortunately, many Gazans have also been killed due to internal fighting between Gazans and the Israeli occupation. It is a place where there is much despair. I think it is tragic if Johnston has been killed. If Israelis want to point at this as a form of Arab savagery, one can say both sides have killed Western journalists.
And now the Palestinians may have included themselves in the list of people who have killed journalists. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The Guardian is also reporting something similar. This is just awful. It's deeply disturbing the way journalists (as well as media offices and TV stations) are increasingly targetted in modern conflict. It's also (in this particular context) an own goal. Hezbollah later regretted targetting western journalists during the 80s as they realised that frightening the western media out of Lebanon meant there was nobody to tell their story to the western public. Looks like these stupid b@stards have not learnt from that - or are just a bunch of thugs that really don't care. |
I really, really hope he is alive. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:09 am Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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| tzechuk wrote: |
In a statement faxed to news agencies, the group contrasts the attention given to Alan Johnston's captivity with that given to Palestinians held in prison. |
By what logic...how does killing a sympathetic, independent news reporter help your cause?
Still I doubt it will end the unlimited support westerners have for palestinians.  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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| Junior wrote: |
| tzechuk wrote: |
In a statement faxed to news agencies, the group contrasts the attention given to Alan Johnston's captivity with that given to Palestinians held in prison. |
By what logic...how does killing a sympathetic, independent news reporter help your cause?
Still I doubt it will end the unlimited support westerners have for palestinians. |
Funny, the quote you chose rather undermines your point and actually highlights how little support the Palestinians have in the west. When a westerner is held captive it is big news, but when a Palestinian is held captive, it's...well...no news. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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As far as i know Britain has not taken any Palestinians hostage nor murdered them.
If I was Blair i'd declare war on Palestine until they hand over the British national. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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| Junior wrote: |
As far as i know Britain has not taken any Palestinians hostage nor murdered them.
If I was Blair i'd declare war on Palestine until they hand over the British national. |
So you would hold all Palestinians responsible for the actions of a small group of thugs? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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| Junior wrote: |
As far as i know Britain has not taken any Palestinians hostage nor murdered them.
If I was Blair i'd declare war on Palestine until they hand over the British national. |
You mean if I were Blair. Grammatically the sentence is in the conditional requiring you to use the verb were after the pronoun I. The Palestinian people did not support the kidnapping of Johnston. Some fanatics did. That is like saying a few Canadians who burned a Hindu temple after Sept.11th represent Canadians in Canada. Some Palestinians would possibly kill militants who killed Johnston if he was killed, because it is considered an insult for some to kill a guest, a friend etc.... So I disagree with what you said... They didn't find him to be an enemy. Anyway, the Israelis have also killed media people, so the Palestinians wouldn't be the first in doing this if this unfortunately happened. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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[quote="Adventurer"]
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| The Palestinian people did not support the kidnapping of Johnston. Some fanatics did. |
You telling me all or most americans support the war in Iraq? or the kidnapping of Iranian diplomats by the US military in Iraq?
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| Some Palestinians would possibly kill militants who killed Johnston if he was killed, because it is considered an insult for some to kill a guest, |
Kr*p. It s always Ok to kill the infidel. Read your koran.
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| Anyway, the Israelis have also killed media people |
Accidentally.On one occasion. When the media got inb the way of the battlefield and was actually helping their enemies.
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| so the Palestinians wouldn't be the first in doing this if this unfortunately happened. |
Theres a difference between a nation accidentally killing a journalist in crossfire on one occasion and apologising immediately, and a nation that often takes hostages innocent civilians from non muslim countries and kills them. I really thought you'd be able to tell the difference adventurer but I see you're merely a male bigbird.
Palestine is responsible, don't try to absolve them. The PA should clamp down on their hostage takers.There should have been some effort on the part of Plaestinian police to hunt down these groups and nix them. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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[quote="Junior"][quote="Adventurer"]
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| The Palestinian people did not support the kidnapping of Johnston. Some fanatics did. |
You telling me all or most americans support the war in Iraq? or the kidnapping of Iranian diplomats by the US military in Iraq?
[I am not sure where the polls are right now. Possibly 60-66% do not support the war and 34-40% do not. I haven't seen the latest polls, but 75% supported the war initially.
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/15470
The American people don't support the war (now) really anymore than the Palestinians as a whole did support this dumb kidnapping.
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| Some Palestinians would possibly kill militants who killed Johnston if he was killed, because it is considered an insult for some to kill a guest, |
Kr*p. It s always Ok to kill the infidel. Read your koran.
[How about a mature response? Why don't you read your Koran/Quran?
As far as I undertand, in the Jewish and Arab traditions there is the concept of the stranger, the guest regardless of their religion. An innocent civilian is an infidel but not someone to be killed unless you are in combat with him. This reporter wasn't carrying any weapons, was friends with Gazans. If what you say is true about their religious beliefs, then why are they protesting for his release? To prove you wrong and make you look bad?  Come on, Junior! LOL
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| Anyway, the Israelis have also killed media people |
Accidentally.On one occasion. When the media got inb the way of the battlefield and was actually helping their enemies.
You have a point that I will concede. The evidence doesn't seem clear that Miller was killed. However, the Israeli side hampered the investigation. He was carrying a white flag. It could have been an accident but there are many question marks surrounding the killing.
Theoretically, it could have been an accident, but he was able to be seen.
You also forget that British national Iain Hooke was also killed. Was it an accident? What about Tom Hurndall? All these people are simply dying in accidents? It seems kind of strange to me that these British citizens are getting all killed by accident? Why are they all accidents? Miller's foreign companions and the Palestinians filming said it was no accident.
As far as the PA, they need to find these kidnappers. They are guilty of committing a crime. They need to be punished, and as you said the lawless elements need to be nixed. But I think both sides endanger the lives of foreign nationals Israelis and Palestinians. I wouldn't want to be either near the IDF or the territories if I were a journalist. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
As far as i know Britain has not taken any Palestinians hostage nor murdered them.
If I was Blair i'd declare war on Palestine until they hand over the British national. |
So you would hold all Palestinians responsible for the actions of a small group of thugs? |
Yes i would is the answer, because Palestine condones and fails to control or rein in all those numerous groups of thugs. Its their way of meeting their objectives whilst escaping responsibility. Its like all these muslim countries sheltering and funding terrorists. When there is an attack they say the official line "oh but we don't support them".
Its similar to what sparked the invasion of Lebanon. if a country cannot control the renegade groups in its borders and those groups consistently provoke, then its their fault when they get invaded.
Muslim countries aare like a scorpion mimicking a dove. Their agenda is wholly different to the west and our values are their biggest weapon to use against us. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Rumour has it that Alan Johnson is dead?! |
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| Junior wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Junior wrote: |
As far as i know Britain has not taken any Palestinians hostage nor murdered them.
If I was Blair i'd declare war on Palestine until they hand over the British national. |
So you would hold all Palestinians responsible for the actions of a small group of thugs? |
Yes i would is the answer, because Palestine condones and fails to control or rein in all those numerous groups of thugs. Its their way of meeting their objectives whilst escaping responsibility. Its like all these muslim countries sheltering and funding terrorists. When there is an attack they say the official line "oh but we don't support them".
Its similar to what sparked the invasion of Lebanon. if a country cannot control the renegade groups in its borders and those groups consistently provoke, then its their fault when they get invaded.
is not like there is territorial unity for their to be any real cohesion.
Muslim countries aare like a scorpion mimicking a dove. Their agenda is wholly different to the west and our values are their biggest weapon to use against us. |
You don't seem to understand the reality of the region. You said all the countries support terrorism. It is not that simple. Syria has Hamas offices and Hezbollah offices and so does Lebanon. Jordan closed its office and Egypt maintains channels of communication which is helpful to Israel and the Palestinians. So your assertion that they all shelter
and harbour terrorists is kind of a stretch. It is not black and white, and it is not like the U.N. or the Hague have said Israel is clean and Hamas is simply the bad one. There is a conflict out there, and there is an occupation if you haven't heard. There is no Palestinian state, only a weak PA and two major rival groups the PA and Hamas. It
As far as the West and values as Mohatma Ghandi when asked what he thought about Western civilization he said "That's a good idea". The West, you forget, is the one that had the holocaust, about a million dead in Algeria, larger craters in Vietnam, the Inquisition, expelling Germans from the Czech areas, giving guns to Indonesia while they massacre Catholics in East Timor, 20+ million Indians (conservative number) starved due to British policies, the mistreatment of the Aborigines in Australia etc.... The West has a lot of skeletons in its closet so lecturing about morality doesn't exactly work. Western states have generally treated their own citizens better than the Arab states have treated their own. If you said that, then I would agree with you, but you didn't.
You were speaking as if history never happened, but it did.
As far as incursions, if Hezbollah goes into Israeli territory and takes IDF soldiers, that is provocative and it risks getting Lebanon bombed.
It is a dumb move. No side should make incursions be they Israelis or Arabs. Violence hasn't solved the problems of the region. The Arabs know Israel is there to stay and Israel knows the Palestinians are there to stay. How to live together is another question. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| tzechuk wrote: |
I really, really hope he is alive. |
Looks like he is: Alan Johnston 'still alive'
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The Palestinian President has said that kidnapped BBC journalist Alan Johnston is still alive.
President Mahmoud Abbas revealed intelligence services have confirmed that the reporter was alive, raising hopes for the release of Mr Johnston.
"Yes, I believe he is still alive," President Abbas said in Stockholm. "Our intelligence services have confirmed to me that he's alive."
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