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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: Does Gnostic thought exist in Islam? |
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Was reading something that was supposed to be a theory of gnostism and it sounded similar to something I had been told about Islamic beliefs.
Therefore I have the question 5to those who have studied Islam and Gnosticism. Does gnoestic thought still exist in certain islamic teachings?
Not trolling, just curious. |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not too cultured on Islam, but as Gnostic thought is viewed as "pagan" by Christian standards, I'm guessing Islam's strict rules about women, sex and drug use doesn't jive with Gnostic beliefs or practices. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Does Gnostic thought exist in Islam? |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
Was reading something that was supposed to be a theory of gnostism and it sounded similar to something I had been told about Islamic beliefs.
Therefore I have the question 5to those who have studied Islam and Gnosticism. Does gnoestic thought still exist in certain islamic teachings?
Not trolling, just curious. |
Gnostic thinking (and the Neo-Platonic philosophy that pervades a great deal of Gnosticism) had a massive influence on Sufi Islam. Sufism is a very complicated set of beliefs but in many ways it emphasizes the same sort of "gnosis" as the Gnostics as the true path to god that the regular believers were missing. The main differences are that there's not much of a Demiurge figure in Sufi thought and the Neo-Platonism comes through even stronger. There's also more of an emphasis on the process by which one achieves a direct connection to god than in Gnostic texts.
I'd recommend taking a look at: Mystical Dimensions of Islam by Annemarie Schimmel. It has a bit of a pro-Sufi slant but the author is very smart and it is very well-researched. |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. Sufism is Islam's mystic branch.
You may also want to look at Alevism, which is sometimes called a branch of Islam, but is actually a distinct religion that blends elements of Zoroastrianism, Islam, and other traditional religions of the Middle East. |
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Woland wrote: |
Exactly. Sufism is Islam's mystic branch.
You may also want to look at Alevism, which is sometimes called a branch of Islam, but is actually a distinct religion that blends elements of Zoroastrianism, Islam, and other traditional religions of the Middle East. |
The problem with that is the Alevis are pretty good at keeping secrets, so not that much is known about the specifics of their beliefs/practices. Also take a look at the Druze... |
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Delirium's Brother
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Out in that field with Rumi, waiting for you to join us!
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Saxiif wrote: |
| Woland wrote: |
Exactly. Sufism is Islam's mystic branch.
You may also want to look at Alevism, which is sometimes called a branch of Islam, but is actually a distinct religion that blends elements of Zoroastrianism, Islam, and other traditional religions of the Middle East. |
The problem with that is the Alevis are pretty good at keeping secrets, so not that much is known about the specifics of their beliefs/practices. Also take a look at the Druze... |
Wow... two people beat me to saying that. I must not read this board very much anymore.
Yes, Sufism is the mystical side of Islam. Interestingly, during the Middle Ages, a few Sufis were accused of heresy (and some were executed). I will explain why, if you're interested. I think someone mentioned something of that, above. A small minority of hardliners don't even believe that Sufism (because of its hetrodoxy) is Islamic, but it is generally accepted to be so, by the majority.
There is definitely Gnostic (and Neo-platonic) thought contained within Sufism (some might disagree). But it isn't as speculative as Gnosticism is. Sufism properly understood is praxis.
And, by the way, if you are interested in Alevism, you might want to add "Cult of Angels" to your keyword search. That's another name for the religion. Well, really Alevism is a subdivision within the Cult of Angels. It's primarily an indigenous Kurdish/Irano-Kurdish belief system. It is a Universalist religion that has the veneer of Islam, but isn't really. By that, I mean that it is a more ancient, and yet syncretizing, belief system which has adopted many symbolic and practical functions of Islam but probably isn't really Islamic (judging by some of the commentary you can read on the internet).
You probably won't find a lot of richly detailed information about Alevis on the internet because their liturgy and doxa are only available to initiates. What you will find is some history, etic analysis and some sketches of their belief systems, but nothing detailed. I used to know a Y�rs�ni man (Y�rs�nism is also part of the Cult of Angels) back home but he was pretty tight-lipped about his beliefs (even though I enquired).
The Cult of Angels probably did have an effect on Sufism. If I understand things correctly, the sufi, Muhammad Nurbakhsh, had similar ideological beliefs to them. The Cult of Angels also shares similar eschatological beliefs with many other schools of Sufism.
peace, |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2007 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| The center of Alevi worship in Turkey is the tomb of Haci Bektas Veli, founder of the Bektasi order of Sufiism. Quite a place to visit. I really like the Alevi. |
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