Korean Job Discussion Forums

[thepeel]

Hitchens vs. Hedges in California.

I agree with both of them in that I want to stop these wars AND I despise organized religion and really despise the relativist argument that holds religion "a" = "b" regardless of what "a" or "b" teach as the central ideas of the religion. The relativist argument, in this case, is the spineless, yellabellied and cowardly argument.

None the less, Hedges gets his arse handed to him on a golden plate of intellectual smackaround by the god of anti-god, Chris Hitchens.

Watch!

http://www.zombietime.com/hitchens-hedges_debate/

[mack4289]

I like a lot of Hitchens' writing but I think there's nothing more boring than an atheist who acts like being one is some badge of honor. I'm an atheist myself but I could always be wrong. Religions do a lot of good and a lot of bad, maybe God exists, maybe God doesn't. I think we'd all be a lot more sane if we could just leave the debate at that. Although if we could, Mike Seaver never would've proven God exists on national TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Of90cKxSeuw).

[postfundie]

[thepeel]

[mack4289]

My problem with Hitchens writing a book like "God Is Not Great" or with Michael Hedges writing a book like "American Fascists" is they are using their considerable talents to exploit the choir's endless appetite to be preached to and to be outraged. There's a massive media industry built around having opinions like this (just type in George W. Bush in an Amazon book search and see what comes up) and it's as mindnumbing as Nascar. When Hitchens gets into his lofty intentions about why he wrote this book, I want to ask him, "Do you really think you're getting through to the people who disagree with you? Do you really want to engage in dialogue or do you just want a chance to throw some red meat to the ideologues?" I do agree with Hitchens' positions on the incoherence, laziness and even cowardice behind moral relativism and religious pluralism. But will his approach convince anyone who isn't already convinced?
At the same time intellectuals need to make a living and baiting people on any divisive issue will always be lucrative. I just try to avoid supporting it with any of my money.

[thepeel]

I just finished God is Not Great today. It is an excellent read.

And it is a VERY necessary book for our time. Religion is far too powerful and faaarr to protected. It needs to be criticized aggressively. Hitchens did us all a favor in saying things in that book that others would shy away from.

We should not tolerate the hate and calls to violence contained in the major religious texts and more than we should tolerate white supremacist hate and calls to violence. Dangerous ideas are dangerous ideas.

I welcome the muscular atheists. While I may or may not disagree with them, depending on the day, they are a very necessary backlash to the extreme religiosity that bloomed in the recent past. Sam Harris, Dawkings and now Hitchens are putting their necks (literally) on the line to defend the secular world order that has served us all so well.

I guess we much agree to disagree about this eh? Can we do the same with an observant Christian/muslim?

[mack4289]

I don't doubt that God Is Not Great is full of important ideas and that our world would be a lot more stable if more people could be critical of their faith. But do you think Hitchens is preaching to the choir or is he genuinely trying to engage the hard-core religious people in dialogue? Judging from Hitchens approach to magazine pieces and television appearances, I'd guess engaging those who disagree with him in a productive dialogue (as opposed to one where he gets to show off his considerable verbal gifts to antagonize and embarrass them) is pretty low on his priority list.

[thepeel]

[seoulunitarian]

[thepeel]

Protected from what, who and how? What policy are you suggesting?

[seoulunitarian]

[mack4289]

Inspiring moderates to stand up to extremism is certainly a worthy venture in any field. I just think Hitchens gets too high handed and arrogant about it sometimes. It makes me wonder if inspiring moderates is really that important to him or if he just gets off on showing how much smarter he is than most people.

[thepeel]

[Grimalkin]

I'm a huge Dawkins fan but, (although I'm an atheist) I can't bear to listen to him on the topic of religion. I too much prefer Harris.


My problem with Dawkins is that he seems to think if he points out how ludicrous religious beliefs are he will persuade people. That's never gonna happen. I think the best that can be hoped for is, not to persuade people to give up their religion, but to persuade them to accomodate and tolerate other points of view....and even that is not gonna be easy!