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blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: Does God really exist? |
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We can�t really prove God exists in a scientific sense. However, many things can�t be proved scientifically and they are still true. There�s a sense in which humanity has simply accepted that there is a God, or gods. Historically humans have always had a belief in a greater Being as part of their culture. The Bible doesn�t try to prove God�s existence. It takes that as a �given�. What the Bible is concerned to do is to reveal what God is like � how he acts towards the world and people, what sort of character he has, what sort of plans he is committed to.
Pointers to God
There are factors that point to the existence of God. Different people put more importance on some of these factors than on others. Some of the arguments used to show God�s existence are:
There is a universal spiritual awareness in humanity, which indicates there is likely to be a Being on whom humans depend, and who they are accountable to.
The existence of the world demonstrates there is a supreme being who created it
The wonder, beauty, diversity, intricacy and complexity of the world points to the existence of an intelligence who designed it all
Human cultures all have a moral component, laws of right and wrong by which they seek to live and to which they hold individuals accountable. This indicates a greater moral Being who is the foundation of these underlying moral values
Human intelligence, creativity, imagination and relational qualities indicate a higher being who is the author of these qualities.
Jesus himself cannot be explained apart from God�s presence and action
Some people claim it is impossible to really live out the belief that there is no God.
In the end, it is a personal God, revealed in the Bible and in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus who reveals himself to those who seek him. It is a matter of faith and personal relationship with God, gained for us by Jesus. Thanks.  |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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You do realise that your avatar ...
... is a pantheistic Jew who greatly admired Buddhism, don't you?
I thought you had abandoned this sock, Rapier. |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| In the end, it is a personal God, revealed in the Bible and in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus who reveals himself to those who seek him. It is a matter of faith and personal relationship with God, gained for us by Jesus. Thanks. |
My problem with God is that he's a lot too personal...and I don't mean that in the sense that he's always prying into our private lives.
I mean that every person has a different concept of what God is so how can we decide which of these to believe in>
And there's no point in talking about the 'personal God, revealed in the Bible' as no two people's interpretation of the bible will be the same either! |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Does God really exist? |
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| blynch wrote: |
| There is a universal spiritual awareness in humanity, which indicates there is likely to be a Being on whom humans depend, and who they are accountable to. |
Not everything believed worldwide is true.
At one time, everyone believed that the world was flat.
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| The existence of the world demonstrates there is a supreme being who created it. |
If your premise is true, then the existence of a God proves that there was a being who created IT.
Then God's creator had to have a creator, and God's creator's creator had to have a creator, and so on.
The turtles go all the way down.
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| The wonder, beauty, diversity, intricacy and complexity of the world points to the existence of an intelligence who designed it all. |
I have thought about that too.
Throughout most of our existence, all the world was a beautiful countryside.
Evolution probably favored those who were happy living there.
Big ugly grey cities, on the other hand, are a recent occurrence, so we have not had time to adjust.
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| Human cultures all have a moral component, laws of right and wrong by which they seek to live and to which they hold individuals accountable. |
So does animal society.
That is because their instincts command them to live in an orderly fashion.
They do just fine without any of this religious folderol.
Our instincts kept us in line millions of years before WE adopted all this religious folderol.
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| Human intelligence, creativity, imagination and relational qualities indicate a higher being who is the author of these qualities. |
We have unique traits, but so do other animal species.
Why aren't we as strong as horses?
Why can't we fly like birds?
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| Jesus himself cannot be explained apart from God�s presence and action. |
The story of Cinderella can't be explained except in supernatural terms either.
What's your point? |
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blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Grimalkin wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In the end, it is a personal God, revealed in the Bible and in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus who reveals himself to those who seek him. It is a matter of faith and personal relationship with God, gained for us by Jesus. Thanks. |
My problem with God is that he's a lot too personal...and I don't mean that in the sense that he's always prying into our private lives.
I mean that every person has a different concept of what God is so how can we decide which of these to believe in>
And there's no point in talking about the 'personal God, revealed in the Bible' as no two people's interpretation of the bible will be the same either! |
I know intuitively than I can not expect to enjoy a more intimate relationship with another person which goes deeper than the degree of intimacy I have attained in my personal relationship with Jesus. But my time alone with God is easily set aside, compromised, crowded out by a thousand mundane matters, on a daily basis. (See http://ldolphin.org/Intim.html, http://ldolphin.org/relationships.html) |
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blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Troll_Bait wrote: |
You do realise that your avatar ...
... is a pantheistic Jew who greatly admired Buddhism, don't you?
I thought you had abandoned this sock, Rapier. |
Einstein admired Buddhism? Never heard of this. But I sure would be interested to hear more about it. Any links? |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| blynch wrote: |
| Grimalkin wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In the end, it is a personal God, revealed in the Bible and in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus who reveals himself to those who seek him. It is a matter of faith and personal relationship with God, gained for us by Jesus. Thanks. |
My problem with God is that he's a lot too personal...and I don't mean that in the sense that he's always prying into our private lives.
I mean that every person has a different concept of what God is so how can we decide which of these to believe in>
And there's no point in talking about the 'personal God, revealed in the Bible' as no two people's interpretation of the bible will be the same either! |
I know intuitively than I can not expect to enjoy a more intimate relationship with another person which goes deeper than the degree of intimacy I have attained in my personal relationship with Jesus. But my time alone with God is easily set aside, compromised, crowded out by a thousand mundane matters, on a daily basis. (See http://ldolphin.org/Intim.html, http://ldolphin.org/relationships.html) |
Clicked on your links and got this:
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File Not Found
The requested URL was not found on this server.
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??? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Does God really exist? |
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| Quote: |
| There is a universal spiritual awareness in humanity, which indicates there is likely to be a Being on whom humans depend, and who they are accountable to. |
People also dream but that doesn't mean what we dream about is true. Define "spiritual awareness". All cultures posit a god to explain what appears unexplainable? So what? All people make many very common logical fallacies. The god fallacy is one of many.
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| The existence of the world demonstrates there is a supreme being who created it |
That's a circular argument. Fallacy.
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| The wonder, beauty, diversity, intricacy and complexity of the world points to the existence of an intelligence who designed it all |
We evolved. We attach those meanings. Koreans love kimchi. We don't. We attach these labels as we and our culture sees fit.
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| Human cultures all have a moral component, laws of right and wrong by which they seek to live and to which they hold individuals accountable. This indicates a greater moral Being who is the foundation of these underlying moral values |
Herds and primate troops have the basics of morals. Our morals have simply evolved.
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Human intelligence, creativity, imagination and relational qualities indicate a higher being who is the author of these qualities.
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Another circular argument.
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| Jesus himself cannot be explained apart from God�s presence and action |
Jesus can be explained like any other leader who had a group of followers.
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| Some people claim it is impossible to really live out the belief that there is no God. |
So what? |
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blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Does God really exist? |
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| tomato wrote: |
We have unique traits, but so do other animal species.
Why aren't we as strong as horses?
Why can't we fly like birds?
The story of Cinderella can't be explained except in supernatural terms either.
What's your point? |
You have to be aware of the great functionalities in animals, plants, fishes, insects, and the like. We are not as strong as horses but we tamed horses and we now can fly higher, faster, farther than birds. Intelligence we were given.
God used the systematic approach to create plants, trees, animals, birds, fish, and human being. First, he created the living cell with its power to live and function. When you study it, you would be stunned to see this unseen cell by the naked eye has life and can perform all functions of life. You will find the same traits that used in elements and solar system. The maker, or it is better to say the creator, used the same process. He started with one cell, as he started with one atom, and from that cell he created amazing animals, fishes, birds, and human being.
My point is God has made himself decisively clear through Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Redeemer promised to Adam and Eve in Genesis, the only Son of God, and by that very fact, Lord of all Creation. Sorry� but I can�t explain any better this. You can do the research yourself. |
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blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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blynch
Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Location: UCLA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Does God really exist? |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Quote: |
| There is a universal spiritual awareness in humanity, which indicates there is likely to be a Being on whom humans depend, and who they are accountable to. |
People also dream but that doesn't mean what we dream about is true. Define "spiritual awareness". All cultures posit a god to explain what appears unexplainable? So what? All people make many very common logical fallacies. The god fallacy is one of many.
| Quote: |
| The existence of the world demonstrates there is a supreme being who created it |
That's a circular argument. Fallacy.
| Quote: |
| The wonder, beauty, diversity, intricacy and complexity of the world points to the existence of an intelligence who designed it all |
We evolved. We attach those meanings. Koreans love kimchi. We don't. We attach these labels as we and our culture sees fit.
| Quote: |
| Human cultures all have a moral component, laws of right and wrong by which they seek to live and to which they hold individuals accountable. This indicates a greater moral Being who is the foundation of these underlying moral values |
Herds and primate troops have the basics of morals. Our morals have simply evolved.
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Human intelligence, creativity, imagination and relational qualities indicate a higher being who is the author of these qualities.
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Another circular argument.
| Quote: |
| Jesus himself cannot be explained apart from God�s presence and action |
Jesus can be explained like any other leader who had a group of followers.
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| Some people claim it is impossible to really live out the belief that there is no God. |
So what? |
I agree it's a tough concept to understand, but you have to trust that God's plan is far beyond by any comprehension. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Does God really exist? |
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| blynch wrote: |
| We can�t really prove God exists in a scientific sense. However, many things can�t be proved scientifically and they are still true. |
For example?
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I agree it's a tough concept to understand, but you have to trust that God's plan is far beyond by any comprehension.
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This is the funny part. People of a religious bent say this and then simutaneously try to explain God to everybody else. Should you not insert this before everything you say about God, I personally as a mere human cannot comprehend God's will or motives, so everything I say after this point shoukld be taken with a large pinch of salt. It would least show a bit of honesty. |
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faster
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Does God really exist? |
No. |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Does God really exist? |
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| blynch wrote: |
The wonder, beauty, diversity, intricacy and complexity of the world points to the existence of an intelligence who designed it all
Human intelligence, creativity, imagination and relational qualities indicate a higher being who is the author of these qualities.
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also a higher being that is the author of schizophrenia, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, pink eye and hate. all things that an intelligent being wouldn't design.
| blynch wrote: |
Human cultures all have a moral component, laws of right and wrong by which they seek to live and to which they hold individuals accountable. This indicates a greater moral Being who is the foundation of these underlying moral values
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and moral codes are not built by human interaction, and the cause-effect relationships of "hey, if i do this, it makes another person sad, in turn making me sad."?
| blynch wrote: |
Jesus himself cannot be explained apart from God�s presence and action
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yes he can. he was born, was a charismatic religious leader/terrorist and was put to death because he challenged the status quo. terrorist, rabble rouser, champion of ethics and compassion. son of god? no.
there would have to be a god for there to be a son of god.
i think it says something about christians when they say morality and intelligence are borne of a higher power and not of our own minds. humans can figure that shit out on their own, without some profound cosmic presence.
where's the source you cut-and-pasted this from, blintz? |
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Bibbitybop
Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm alive and well right here in Seoul. I decended to Earth to teach my beautiful Korean children English. |
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