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philipjames
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: Christian myths and fables. |
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It never fails to amaze me how there still exist Christians - millions of them - in the year 2007. So many of them are simply ignorant of the mythical nature of so many bible stories. Many of them were indoctrinated into their faith as a child and have remained stuck in that mindset as adults. Let's start a thread containing information that exposes the role of myth in Christianity. I'll start with a short comparative clip about 'virgin births' in antiquity.
Unfortunately, it is accompanied by Madonna's Like a Virgin jingle. Still, it makes its point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qm7Kb18jlwU |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| If only they stuck to biblical myths. In many fundamentalist Protestant churches the world over people still convey modern-day myths and fables (like the disappearing hitch-hiker) that audiences lap up. |
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Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, I like that Madonna song.  Anyway, I totally agree about the incredible inability of Christians to see their faith in a comparative context. Here's another short video about Christian origins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4HoixOCZWY |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Careful now you don't want to end up on anyone's hate list.
Don't forget all those Christian myths outside the bible. Did St.George really slay a dragon? Was St.Patrick the best exterminator Ireland ever saw? Did South Park really answer why there is an Easter bunny? |
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Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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philipjames
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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Bingo
Joined: 22 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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On a more serious note. Did an historical Jesus actually exist? Most historians believe that an historical person [b]did[/b] exist, but dismiss all of the superstitious stuff. It was common back them to attribute all kinds of supernatural abilities and qualities to martyred religious and political leaders. The Jesus movement was no different. Yet, no historian will say for certain that a historical Jesus actually did exist. Some doubt it. One thing is certain. There is zero material evidence for his existence, and (oddly) he left no written records.
So, did he even exist? Here is an argument against his existence.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Bingo wrote: |
On a more serious note. Did an historical Jesus actually exist? Most historians believe that an historical person did exist, but dismiss all of the superstitious stuff. It was common back them to attribute all kinds of supernatural abilities and qualities to martyred religious and political leaders. The Jesus movement was no different. Yet, no historian will say for certain that a historical Jesus actually did exist. Some doubt it. One thing is certain. There is zero material evidence for his existence, and (oddly) he left no written records.
So, did he even exist? Here is an argument against his existence.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm |
Why is it every time I see you post something on this site, it's about whether Jesus was a real person? |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Godamn I hate internet explorer. Just had a long post typed out and clicked on a google link and it erased the whole thing. Lame.
So here it is briefly.
Against juvenile anti-Christianity arguments: www.tektonics.org and www.christian-thinktank.com. Both sites are indispensable, and necessary to avoid looking like you got your world religion knowledge from forwarded emails.
In favor of serious, literary criticism of Christianity: Arthur Frederick Ide. Cannot recommend him enough.
One bit I will contribute is that the Hebrews were a culture that worshipped and idolized war. As such, they were often at war with neighboring tribes. Their spiritual leaders condoned the capture of virgins. Now, the important thing to note is not the barbarism of such activity, but that tradition, culture and religion is often carried on by women in day-to-day reality. These captured women, of course, carried on their own beliefs, which then became enmeshed with the Hebrew culture. So you have cultural metaphors appearing in the Bible such as a tree symbolizing life and a snake symbolizing evil (this was actually most likely a reaction to neighboring 'pagans' who worshipped snakes) that first appeared in Babylonian and other traditions.
So, we have the Bible and the resulting religions being subtly influence by women who were captured by Hebrew warriors.
Oh, and don't forget to check out Joseph Campbell. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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I think the thing that really gets in the way of me taking Christianity (or any other religion) seriously is the talk of miracles. Stuff like Jesus walking on water, turning one loaf of bread into many, and so on. It makes me wonder if Jesus wasn't just a magician preying on people's gullibility.
Today in certain parts of the world (including Korea) there are Christian leaders who use various scams including psychic surgery and all manner of healing techniques such as laying on of hands. All these so-called faith healers are con-artists playing on people's weaknesses in their time of need and they are 100% liars and scumbags. They should be locked away in prison and forgotten, and occasionally they are. They really are an insult to the religion that they're milking.
And then I hear stuff like "Jesus healed a blind person" or "Jesus was hosting a party and there was nothing to drink so he turned water to wine" and I'm worried the same could be said about him and/or others who wrote about him.
The New Testament doesn't say how any of these miracles were performed. Maybe Jesus had a bunch of water on a table, and he said "Okay guys, turn around," and then he dumped out all the water and hauled out a box of wine that had been hiding under the table. |
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just alittlecrazy
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
One bit I will contribute is that the Hebrews were a culture that worshipped and idolized war. As such, they were often at war with neighboring tribes. |
there is a lot in your post but i'll just comment on this bit. Huh?
they were not unlike any other culture of the time. assyrian, egyptian, babylonian,persian etc cultures all recorded their victories and put spin on them as well as their losses. yes there were wars but did not they always start them. and the bible doesn't go into great detail about the periods of peace. bit like the news reporting today, you hear the bad stuff but no one leads with "It was another uneventful peaceful day as usual in (where ever), the 1650th in a row".
the documentary 'who wrote the bible' (http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/9) gives a good overview of the research into the construction of the bible.
oh the snake was also a good thing. Moses held up the two snakes on a stick to cure all those who looked upon it. later christain theology made the snake into a representation of evil/satan. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| just alittlecrazy wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
One bit I will contribute is that the Hebrews were a culture that worshipped and idolized war. As such, they were often at war with neighboring tribes. |
there is a lot in your post but i'll just comment on this bit. Huh?
they were not unlike any other culture of the time. assyrian, egyptian, babylonian,persian etc cultures all recorded their victories and put spin on them as well as their losses. yes there were wars but did not they always start them. and the bible doesn't go into great detail about the periods of peace. bit like the news reporting today, you hear the bad stuff but no one leads with "It was another uneventful peaceful day as usual in (where ever), the 1650th in a row".
the documentary 'who wrote the bible' (http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/9) gives a good overview of the research into the construction of the bible.
oh the snake was also a good thing. Moses held up the two snakes on a stick to cure all those who looked upon it. later christain theology made the snake into a representation of evil/satan. |
The interesting thing about the Old Testament is that God gave the Israelites tactical data. God would tell them who to attack, when to attack, and what to do with the prisoners (kill all males and save only the females who hadn't known a man's touch; turn them into sex slaves).
It's certainly a sign of the times |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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That site has such a consistently smug and condescending tone, and even resorts to name-calling. For example, they've often referred to author Acharya S as "Achy." There's scholarship there, sure, but its patronising style is a real turn off. If they want to be taken seriously, they should first stop writing in such a vindictive, immature manner.
And like some posters here, they pick and choose which points they want to try to refute, usually the easier ones, and ignoring others. |
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just alittlecrazy
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| RACETRAITOR wrote: |
| just alittlecrazy wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
One bit I will contribute is that the Hebrews were a culture that worshipped and idolized war. As such, they were often at war with neighboring tribes. |
there is a lot in your post but i'll just comment on this bit. Huh?
they were not unlike any other culture of the time. assyrian, egyptian, babylonian,persian etc cultures all recorded their victories and put spin on them as well as their losses. yes there were wars but did not they always start them. and the bible doesn't go into great detail about the periods of peace. bit like the news reporting today, you hear the bad stuff but no one leads with "It was another uneventful peaceful day as usual in (where ever), the 1650th in a row".
the documentary 'who wrote the bible' (http://www.tv-links.co.uk/index.do/9) gives a good overview of the research into the construction of the bible.
oh the snake was also a good thing. Moses held up the two snakes on a stick to cure all those who looked upon it. later christain theology made the snake into a representation of evil/satan. |
The interesting thing about the Old Testament is that God gave the Israelites tactical data. God would tell them who to attack, when to attack, and what to do with the prisoners (kill all males and save only the females who hadn't known a man's touch; turn them into sex slaves).
It's certainly a sign of the times |
so are saying there is a god who all did this and that the bible is an accurate record of events?
writings from other cultures contain similar information. our god(s) told us to do this in this way etc. in this aspect the bible is not unique and yes it is a sign of the times, something all cultures engaged in.
if you seriously want to critique the bible you have to put it in context.
for example:
were the commandments the given to moses the only ones given from god to man? no, sumerian scripture, which pre-dates hebrew scripture, has this myth. The hebrew scripture and laws have many similarities with the sumerian ones. and was probably the origin of most of the genesis mythical material too. esp. considering abraham is said to have lived in ur, the main sumerian city. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| just alittlecrazy wrote: |
so are saying there is a god who all did this and that the bible is an accurate record of events?
writings from other cultures contain similar information. our god(s) told us to do this in this way etc. in this aspect the bible is not unique and yes it is a sign of the times, something all cultures engaged in.
if you seriously want to critique the bible you have to put it in context.
for example:
were the commandments the given to moses the only ones given from god to man? no, sumerian scripture, which pre-dates hebrew scripture, has this myth. The hebrew scripture and laws have many similarities with the sumerian ones. and was probably the origin of most of the genesis mythical material too. esp. considering abraham is said to have lived in ur, the main sumerian city. |
Aren't there two sets of Ten Commandments in the Bible even?
I find it a little weird that God visited the Israelites and gave them tactical data to help them win wars. And then after a time he stopped giving that sort of information. I'm sure there is archaeological evidence of a lot of these battles and massacres. Chances are the Israelites were just very successful warriors for a while and they attributed their successes to God. Probably every culture has done the same. It doesn't hurt to point out that Yahweh was originally the god of war in the Hebrew pantheon. |
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