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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| If a war in being conducted against the US , I would hope the president wouldn't pretend that wasn't happening. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| If a war in being conducted against the US , I would hope the president wouldn't pretend that wasn't happening. |
You are trying to reason with a hysterical mob. Not surprising at all that his propaganda references the Nazis in its opening scenes.
If this is the Ron-Paul camp's campaign strategy, I celebrate it, because he stands on the lunatic fringe with the 9/11 conspiracy-theorists and will never receive the Republican party's nomination.
Last edited by Gopher on Fri May 18, 2007 2:08 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| As a candidate Ron Paul is pretty unimportant nevertheless since he gives information that is incomplete and inaccurate on national TV what he says ought to be responded to. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| If a war in being conducted against the US , I would hope the president wouldn't pretend that wasn't happening. |
You are trying to reason with a hysterical mob. Not surprising at all that his propaganda references the Nazis in its opening scenes.
If this is the Ron-Paul camp's campaign strategy, I celebrate it, because he stands on the lunatic fringe with the 9/11 conspiracy-theorists and will never receive the Republican party's nomination. |
?
I've been following Ron Paul for about 10 years now. He isn't on a "lunatic fringe" of anything, less a collection of economists who want to restore the gold standard. Perhaps his supporters, like myself, are anti-war, but I don't think that became a bad thing just because of 9/11.
More to the point, the constant reminding of the American people of 9/11 is a propaganda tool. America isn't unique in using propaganda. But constantly reminding the people about it does keep them in a state of fear. It is useful for the government to have a scared population.
9/11 was a fluke. With the proper policing, border/immigration monitoring and intelligent gathering any new attacks can likely be avoided. It is time for us all to move on. It was a horrible, terrible thing. But America is far more strong than any band of religious thugs. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
[
9/11 was a fluke. With the proper policing, border/immigration monitoring and intelligent gathering any new attacks can likely be avoided. It is time for us all to move on. It was a horrible, terrible thing. But America is far more strong than any band of religious thugs. |
Is there any proof that with the proper policing, border/immigration monitoring and intelligent gathering any new attacks can likely be avoided?
How many targets are in the US? How many illegal aliens get in to the US? How many targets does the US have overseas?
9-11 was worse than Pearl Harbor but there have been other attacks both before and after.
When a terror group and overseas elites are engaging in war against you just seeing how many can prevented does nt' do anything to stop the war against you. |
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pkang0202
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't they just catch a bunch of terrorists from attacking an army base in New Jersey?
These things didn't just stop after 9-11. The US needs to remain vigilant. It doesn't matter who the President is, the US will still be a target. I want a President that says "We can't soften up or get complacent. We are at war (with terrorists) whether we like it or not." |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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BJWD: first, I can understand, appreciate, and even identify with and respect many of your views here. And I always respect your style of presenting your positions and disagreeing with others'. Far more than I can say for most others here.
But we will clash here, unfortunately. And I think it is likely because you identify with Libertarian politics and I do not. Do not think for a moment that I do not respect your choices here, even where we clash. Let us speak direct but strive to keep it civil.
That being said...
| BJWD wrote: |
| He isn't on a "lunatic fringe" of anything... |
Anyone who only cites Stephen Kinzer, a muckraking journalist, and ignores the professional literature on TP/AJAX like Mark J. Gasiorowski and Malcolm Byrne's Mohammad Mosaddeq and the 1953 Coup in Iran is on the lunatic fringe and is satisfied by simplistic answers.
Same goes from someone who exclusively takes his lessons in American foreign affairs from Chalmers Johnson.
And when I hear Ron Paul talk, I hear little more than his repeating their talking points. He seems to repeat "the blowback thesis" at least as much as the Administration repeats "the war-on-terror thesis." People with these views will never sit in the Oval Office -- not even as visitors -- BJWD. And in my view, this is a good thing. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: ... |
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Wait a minute. Joo and Gopher both voted for Gore in 2000.
I think we'd better listen. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| You are trying to reason with a hysterical mob. |
Liar. Hypocrite. How often do we hear you make claims to civil debate, liar? Dismissing dissenting views as hysteria is civil debate?
| Gopher wrote: |
BJWD: first, I can understand, appreciate, and even identify with and respect many of your views here. And I always respect your style of presenting your positions and disagreeing with others'. Far more than I can say for most others here.
Let us speak direct but strive to keep it civil. |
Hypocrite. See above.
| Quote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| He isn't on a "lunatic fringe" of anything... |
the lunatic fringe and is satisfied by simplistic answers. |
Ignores (how do you know?) two authors you like, so he's a lunatic?
gopher, "civil debate" to you only means people who don't call you on your lies are OK to talk to.
Last edited by EFLtrainer on Sun May 20, 2007 7:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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For those who are into fighting terrorism and whatever else.
How do you figure that having almost all our military running around in Baghdad and spending unlimited tax dollars doing it is best for OUR national security?
Our national security isn't based on securing Baghdad. We have our own country. Bin Ladin isn't in Baghdad. Saddam isn't even in Baghdad. NOTHING IS THERE! Not even WMD.
The entire thing is ridiculous. If I was Bin Ladin hanging out in Pakistan.. nothing would make me laugh more than all of the U.S. resources trying to secure an unrelated city getting picked off and dying everyday in the process for absolutely no real apparent reason whatsoever. That and the entire drain ALL of our monetary resources in the same fruitless endeavor.
The entire situation is so ridiculous and almost so perfect from a Muslim extremisist position, it almost makes you think maybe if God is God, then he might possibly be a Muslim God. If I were a moderate muslim myself, the ridiculousness of the situation would definetely restore my faith. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| ...those who are into fighting terrorism and whatever else. |
Wish you would not herd everyone who disagrees with Ron Paul's nonsense into this "Other" category, Tiger Beer.
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| The entire thing is ridiculous... |
A thread that presupposes the Republic no longer exists? That Nazis are running the so-called War on Terror? I agree. Ridiculous. Indeed, hysteria -- as I point out, above.
Last edited by Gopher on Sat May 19, 2007 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:28 am Post subject: |
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The entire thing is ridiculous. If I was Bin Ladin hanging out in Pakistan.. nothing would make me laugh more than all of the U.S. resources trying to secure an unrelated city getting picked off and dying everyday in the process for absolutely no real apparent reason whatsoever. That and the entire drain ALL of our monetary resources in the same fruitless endeavor.
The entire situation is so ridiculous and almost so perfect from a Muslim extremisist position, it almost makes you think maybe if God is God, then he might possibly be a Muslim God. If I were a moderate muslim myself, the ridiculousness of the situation would definetely restore my faith. |
I agree and well stated. It is just UNBELIEVABLE. Like Alice, sometimes I think I fell down some damn rabbit hole.
The only conclusion for me, reached after believing several other things -- is to place the blame on the American citizen (yes this is a blanket statement and meant as such, not a reflection on those who do fight the good fight) who have become complacent and abdicated their own obligation to be vigiliant of the powers that be and take an active, civic part in society at large.....
Too many asleep at the wheel and the press included also.
Feels like that Aldo Nova song, "like is just a fantasy...."
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Wait a minute. Joo and Gopher both voted for Gore in 2000.
I think we'd better listen. |
some people change their views when the evidence tells them to. |
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