Korean Job Discussion Forums

[khreporter]

(posted on Job Discussion forum too.. but this is a one off and just looking for a quick couple of opinions)

Just a quick question.. What would be more appropriate or practical to protect teachers from unscrupulous hagwons - a change in the immigration law to allow teachers to change jobs without the need for permission from their employer (letter of release) or an association/union that could represent them in disputes with hagwon, and speak on their behalf at labor hearings/civil court etc?

If you choose a change in the law, how likely do you think that would be without the support of an association/union of English teachers to lobby on your behalf?

If you want to go on the record with your real name - pm - if not, just post here.

Thanks for your input.

[Bibbitybop]

A union would work great...no need to change jobs or go through a hassle if things don't go wrong in the first place. Unions could help persuade hogwans to be more honest instead of keeping teaching rotating through bad companies.

[ttompatz]

[ontheway]

The best solution for everyone would be to allow teachers to come to Korea on their own teaching visa. This would mean the labor market for teachers would operate more like a free market.

For high quality teachers, this would be a great deal. They could look for the best job opportunity. They could quit and move on when a better job comes along. They could quickly move on when a school or employer is dishonest, unreasonable or the job just doesn't fit the teacher. The wage level for high quality teachers would rise. The range of wage levels paid would stretch out with higher wages for experience and quality and lower levels for low quality teachers.

For good schools, this would also be a great deal. They could look for the best teachers. They could hire teachers without fear, because they could fire the bad ones and send them on their way without obligation. When they have a job opening, they could find a better teacher that was already employed and hire them away by offering better terms. This is a win for good schools.

The bad teachers would lose under this deal. The market would recognize who they are. They would no longer automatically get a job due to a tight market. The whining, complaining, job hopping, freaky foreigners would face a difficult market and falling wages. They would have to leave Korea and give up. A win for Korean society.

Bad schools would also lose under this deal. They could find teachers, but they would always leave for greener pastures. The school would find itself in a constant struggle to keep its staff. They would have to change or die. Another win for Korean society.

High quality workers, businesses and society as a whole ALWAYS win in a free market. The trouble here is socialism.

[cbclark4]

Dear KH,

You are the best weapon we have so far.

I think your right and proper criticism of the weakness of enforcement of the current laws is the best approach.

I think the big problem is with Teachers not knowing they can go to the labor board. Probably the next biggest problem is that teacher do not go to the labor board soon enough.

Maybe write a good strong advice piece for Teachers. My opinion and advice is simply when you don't get paid (or otherwise are being screwed) ask for a letter of release from your employer, if one is not given, then go directly to the labor board.

No I am not sure what occurs at that point. but, I would hope the labor board would have the authority to issue a release to obtain future employment. I think that should be the first step.

Now the only remaining problem is just compensation. You get your new job and visa sponsor. Now you can seek remedy for your damages.

The labor board needs simply to realize the Market force, a teacher can get another job easily.

Now am I saying that all cases should be allowed for a LoR, no. But failure to pay should be automatic. Also any firing should be accompanied by a LoR. Failure to pay wages in full on pay day should also make the Employer/Sponsor liable for all rents and utilities as well as transportation costs (airfare).

Welcome to the hotel California
Such a lovely place
Such a lovely face
Plenty of room at the hotel California
Any time of year, you can find it here

Mirrors on the ceiling,
The pink champagne on ice
And she said we are all just prisoners here, of our own device
And in the masters chambers,
They gathered for the feast
The stab it with their steely knives,
But they just cant kill the beast

Last thing I remember, I was
Running for the door
I had to find the passage back
To the place I was before
relax, said the night man,
We are programmed to receive.
You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!

(taken from Hotel California, The Eagles)http://www.lyricsfreak.com/e/eagles/hotel+california_20044469.html

cbc

[jinju]

I dont know. My sister in law, a KOREAN just got the "we cant pay, we have no money" crap from the hagwon she quit from. Its not just foreigners getting shafted by sleazy hagwons anf therein lies the problem: hagwon owners are as sleazy as used car salesmen and ambulance chasing lawyers. I doubt a union would be of any good. The best thing is changing laws that allow you to quit and change jobs freely. But as you see in my example, she has that right and she is geting cheated because she is leaving. There is no solution that would fix all the problems, but changing the laws would give you E2 guys more power and much more freedom.

[khyber]

....and if it empowered the Korean teachers a bit (ideal) then it could benefit them too.

[Saxiif]

[The Great Toad]

[quote]

[bosintang]

An effective union is going to be too difficult to set up. Too many barriers, with a too indvidualistic, short-sighted, and transient workforce.

The best improvement that we could see in Korea would be to end the LoR nonsense. We should be able to change jobs and visa sponsorship without our employers permission. Even better would be to have teachers own their own visas, and have stricter regulations for obtaining them, including employers who would be licensed to sponsor.

Deprived of using threats and stronghand tactics, ESL employers would have to take a cold, sober look at the supply availability of teachers, and we'd probably find perks that make Korea attractive for newbies like airfare and housing drying up, but salaries overall increasing for those who stick it out in Korea for a few years.

If a union did get off the ground, and I was part of it, it would certainly be my main concern. I don't know how likely immigration is to change the law without a union backing this, but it would be a nice bone. You don't want foreign teachers to unionise? Change the law to give foreign teachers more control as individuals and we won't.