Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Smee]

Hi, a friend asked me about this. She, an EFL learner, learned that "had died" is correct and is confused when she hears 'has died." Has died sounds more natural to me, and I did a google battle and "has died" won. I mentioned to her that I thought it would depend on the context, and whether the information of the death is necessarily new or not. "He had died" could mean he expired in 1880, 1990, or yesterday. However, I searched around the internet and coulnd't find a proper explanation.

She also wrote this: one of my English teachers who
is Taiwanese said that we shouldn't say "has/have
died" because it sounds like the dead person would be
back to life and then die again. What he meant is
that the word "die" is more like a "condition" than an
"action". What he meant is that similar words are
"love", "like". Those words are all verbs, but you
can't really see the "action", unlike verbs like
"play", "talk", "jump", "run" etc.

Can anybody help me out?

[yingwenlaoshi]

"To die" is a finished action. The only was it can properly be used is in the past simple.

My mother died.

The only other explanation could be if it were recently. Then you might say, "has passed away" or "has died". The only time you would use "had" would be when referring to the past where the action took place in a time recently related to the action: "I was at a hockey game when I heard that my mother had passed away".

Past simple is the correct form though: "I was at a hockey game when I heard that my mother passed away".

Using present or past perfect in the above cases is what I might consider a more formal or polite way of speaking. It has a nicer ring to it.

That's what I think.

I think that "has been" or "had been" with "dead" or "no longer with us" is grammatically correct.

[tomato]

Have you tried using "present perfect" and "past perfect" as search words?
"has died" is present perfect tense and "had died" is past perfect tense.

[yingwenlaoshi]

[Woland]

[yingwenlaoshi]

Well I guess I should've said "If you really look at it, logically it should only be in the past simple tense."

Right? Wrong?

I was high on coffee and hungry when I typed that. As I am right now. But anyway.

If you can use (and you can) present perfect then you can use past pefect.

"I'm sorry, but your mother has passed away." (It's not proper to say "died" here)

I was eating a donut when I heard that my mother had passed away. ("passed away" or "died" are both ok, but "passed away" is much better).

I don't think we should ever use "died" or "dead" when it's someone close to the affected person.

Am I wrong, Mr. Nit Picky?

[tomato]

You have to be careful in speaking Korean, too.
지나가다 is more acceptable than 죽다.

[yingwenlaoshi]

After my mother died (had died? passed away? had passed away?- I think it's "died"), my nephew said to my father on the phone, "I'm sorry Grandma is dead." My sister freaked out a little.

[yingwenlaoshi]

Present simple is the most correct. End of story.

[faster]

By the time the doctor arrived, unfortunately, the patient had died.


Is anyone seriously willing to argue that the above sentence is wrong? If so, I'd love to read an explanation for such a preposterous belief.

[Privateer]

"She has died" - a recent event, a past event with results affecting the immediate present, i.e. grief, funeral arrangements, doctor's reports, etc. (Present Perfect)

"She died" - an event in the past, at a definite time. (Simple Past)

"She had died" - an event in the past that takes place before the other past events in the main narrative, a.k.a. the past before the past. (Past Perfect)

OP: I think your student is probably confused about when to use the Present Perfect. She/He knows they can't say "She has died" about a death that took place some years ago, but doesn't know why and is just using Past Perfect in a misguided attempt to cover all situations. Just my guess.

[yingwenlaoshi]

[faster]

[yingwenlaoshi]

[Richard Krainium]