Korean Job Discussion Forums

[oneofthesarahs]

*Note: Dearest mods, please do not lock this right away. I feel like this is a different angle on the misogyny thread that does not involve personal attacks/playing a game of who's the troll. Also, I think this is a serious topic which is quite important to me and deserves a second chance at serious discussion.

In general, I've been keeping out of the male vs. female threads, because I have up to this point felt like it has mostly been a lot of online d*ck waving. But something about this board has been bothering me a lot lately and I've finally figured out what it is.

In one of the threads, kermo said that she had kept her identity as a female secret for a long time. This made me really sad, because it is the same reason that many women avoid calling themselves a "feminist." As soon as you say the word "feminist," some men (and a few women, too) are going to start screaming FEMINAZI. But feminism isn't about being better than men or hating men or burning bras. Real feminism is just the simple concept that women are different than men, but capable of doing the same things as men and equal. Not really such a radical concept.

This gets into tricky territory for me because as well as being a feminist to the core, I am also a big proponent of free speech. So if you want to say hateful things, that's your problem, not mine. You are the one who comes across as a spiteful, bitter loser. There have been several posts to the tune of "If you dress like a sl*t, you are a sl*t." It's true that a person needs to be aware that the clothes they wear reflect their personality, whether that reflection is true or not. If you see a woman wearing a short skirt, think to yourself that she must surely be a big sl*t. Whatever. That's your prerogative. However, that does not give you the right to harass, catcall, or, heaven forbid, sexually assault someone. Having worked in a rape crisis center before, I know that placing the blame on the victim is one of the most psychologically damaging things you can do to a person, man or woman. (Yes, you big strong men can get raped, too.)

But lastly, and most importantly, of all men on the planet, white men working in Korea should not be so misogynistic. The most common complaints on these boards involve being stared at for being a foreigner, being treated as nothing more than an English speaking dancing robot, having a point of view that isn't listened to in the workplace and in the government. Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are exactly the same things that women have to deal with. Being stared at, being treated like an object, not being treated seriously/being dismissed. When you feel like you are being mistreated by Koreans, surprise! You know what it feels like to be a woman. Does it feel sh*tty when people treat you like you have only one function in life? Congratulations, you're a feminist.

[julian_w]

Good points. Well put.

I was thinking your last points at the end there just yesterday again, after having a swim...

I have met males who have been raped; I get uncomfortable with some stares in the showers here, whatever the looks in the eyes of the lookers.

(As a directly related aside, I'm actually often more comfortable in the company of gay friends than het., and I'm het.. I'm comfortable with my sexuality, orientation, and my manhood. It's the occassional intrusive looks that irk.)

I don't know why it's such a large leap for some males to make the imaginative connection to the effects they have on women. Maybe they don't have sisters. Maybe they never had been challenged enough by any other person whether man or woman - mother or aunt or teacher or friend or girlfriend - to think the issues through enough. I can quite believe they've never been challenged by other men.

I feel lucky that I have two stroppy sisters, a confident mother, very confident older - and younger - female friends, and ended up in a couple of courses and classes at university that further blew my mind. I've been challenged to think and act differently by all these people, and I'm real glad of it.

... Having said that, I still catch myself thinking and acting like a dickhead. Jeeze it's difficult to go against a whole culture. An inter-national culture. And we come from cultures where it's acceptable, or even a sign of maturity to be independent, to be an individual, or to be different to a certain extent.

But f.uck that. No excuses. Changes need to happen. Some are happening. Is it too slow? For many, it is. For me, if I have kids in the next 10 years, it is way too slow. (... I don't want a daughter to have to put up with someone like me in my weaker moments.)

We need to keep in mind, too, that many of the people who end up here are real young, straight out of school, maybe away from home for the first time. More excuses? Nah, just saying there's a general lack of maturity...

Although not knowing how to love oneself, and by extension someone of your favourite gender, and by extension complete strangers online, is not necessarily something that we learn with extra years on planet.

... I guess it comes back to us - the most radical thing you can do is look for ways to love, radically - live the example, and relate to others how you expect to be related to. ... It's a bit of a challenge.

And yeah, it requires a bit more than that of males. We need to keep challenging each other, too. Women have enough to do just putting up with all the b.s.

And in conclusion, ... imagine ...

this in your neighbourhood. What would you do?

It's a global village. This IS your neighbourhood. What ARE you going to do?

[Freaka]

[Zoobot]

yeppers... That's crazy that Kermo was afraid to let people know she is a woman. That alone validates the argument for me. I'm convinced. There is a lot of misogyny on this board. I did see that comment that Freaka is talking about, and I thought it was totally uncalled for because it was not made as a joke. What are the moderators going to do about it? If they have rules and don't enforce them, why have rules at all?

I'm sorry for all my d*ck waving . I find it fun, but it's all fun and games until someone is not comfortable to let people know who they really are (which is a scary thing to begin with, without all this d$ck waving).

[arjuna]

[Fresh Prince]

I think it's only fare to let men have a go at venting their frustrations. There are certainly male criminals out there but there are also female criminals as well.

[Alyallen]

[peppermint]

I was never afraid to be identified as female,but when I joined, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, the board had a very different vibe. Today, I'd be afraid to post period, never mind identify myself as female.

to the fresh prince- venting about female criminals is fair, its when you start assuming everyone with breasts is a criminal that it becomes a problem That's no more fair than me assuming every man is a rapist.

to the misogynist guys that post here, I feel truly sorry for you guys. I feel badly that you've never met a woman you could have a real conversation with, that you can so easily dismiss 51%(give or take) of the world's population without a thought and that you'll miss out on so much because of that. Hey, it's your loss though.

I know not all of the guys here, or even most of you fall into that category. Some of you've had the ladies backs from the beginning, and it hasn't gone unnoticed. It's always good to be reminded that good guys aren't an endangered species.

[The Bobster]

[peppermint]

Freaka's comments might've been a little out of line, as were Jinju's but they're kind of a moot point. That issue should have been dealt with three pages before it got to that point.

Either way, it's an easy way to dismiss the concerns of some rather long term female posters, Bobster. I can accept once as a simple mistake, but this is becoming quite a trend, and one I'm rather disappointed by.

[Zoobot]

[Freaka]

[Freaka]

[JMO]

[storysinger81]

to oneofthesarahs, peppermint, kermo, rss, Alyallen, and a few others:

Thanks for being awesome and sticking around for us newbies. You ladies (along with some female expat blogs and a few gentlemanly posters on this board) are the kindhearted, sensible posters that help me know that Korea is not the frat boy party house it sometimes seems to be on this board.

The ladies rock! I am most definitely planning to come out for ladies lunches when I get set up in August.