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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:58 pm Post subject: Muslim American Grilled at Border Over Religion |
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Muslim American Grilled at Border Over Religion, Letter to the Editor
By Matthew Rothschild
May 9, 2007
Zakariya Muhammad Reed spent 20 years serving in the National Guard. For the last eleven years, he�s been a firefighter in Toledo.
But this hasn�t kept him from being viewed with suspicion by his own government.
�Now, not only am I being persecuted for my faith, but I�m being persecuted for a personal opinion. This is getting too Orwellian. Is this what it comes down to? Is this where I live? Is this the country I love?�Four times in the last six months, Reed has been detained coming over the border from Canada.
He goes up there because his wife�s family lives in Ontario.
The Canadians don�t bother him, he says. But the Americans do.
His is just one of many such cases reported by Muslim Americans. The ACLU has a lawsuit pending against Homeland Security for its alleged religious and ethnic profiling.
Reed�s case is a particularly eye-opening one.
The first time, Reed, his wife, and their two small children were coming back at about 11:00 p.m, so the kids would be asleep, he says.
On February 2, Reed sent a letter to the Interagency Border Inspection System.
�Nobody will give me any information as to why I am being detained,� he wrote. �I would like to know exactly what I am being accused of and why is it that I am having so much trouble reentering the home of my birth. . . . My entire life has revolved around the service of American citizens and suddenly I am being treated like a criminal because there �is a problem with my name,� to quote one of the border officers. . . . What do I have to do to get my name from this list? . . . I have been treated like a criminal and my wife and children have been mistreated and disrespected in the name of Homeland Security. All we want is to go on with our lives as before. I have never taken part in any subversive activity to cause harm to this land or its people. I have never done anything criminal in my life.�
http://progressive.org/mag_mc050907 |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:00 am Post subject: |
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I guess we could treat all people as if they are potential muslim fanatics and make all border crossings as unmanageable as are airports. We could impose the highest possible inconvenience to the largest number of people to not seem rude to a very small minority who supply virtually all of the terrorist threats.
My crocodile tears doth flow for this man, but such is life. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
I guess we could treat all people as if they are potential muslim fanatics and make all border crossings as unmanageable as are airports. We could impose the highest possible inconvenience to the largest number of people to not seem rude to a very small minority who supply virtually all of the terrorist threats.
My crocodile tears doth flow for this man, but such is life. |
It is not that simple, partner. The way this has been handled shows the U.S. has not really got its act together when it comes to dealing with real terrorists. Obviously, this person who served his country and converted to Islam after marrying a Lebanese Muslim woman shouldn't be treated like a criminal. They should be able to expunge his name from their data base, and have an organized system, but clearly they don't, and he is paying the price. His rights have been clearly violated as a citizen with the harassment he has faced. Your disregard of a citizen's rights
doesn't seem well-placed. If he was a member of some radical mosque, then I might understand. It is the thinking of above that led the SS to kill many Jews in Europe. They looked at a tiny Jewish elite and used their disdain for them to justify their extermination of a whole race whether they were rich or poor, religious or socialists. It didn't matter. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The way this has been handled shows the U.S. has not really got its act together when it comes to dealing with real terrorists. |
I'm not going to be PC. While not all muslims are terrorists, virtually all terrorists are muslim. Being muslim is part of his profile.
But to say that the US has not got its act together is quite obvious. That government can't get anything accomplished anymore.
| Quote: |
| Obviously, this person who served his country and converted to Islam after marrying a Lebanese Muslim woman shouldn't be treated like a criminal. |
1) Why obviously? muslim converts are a serious security risk. The fact that he was at one time not a muslim doesn't change that he is one now. His profile has changed. This is real life.
2) He isn't being treated like a criminal. He was being treated as his coreligionists have caused us to treat people name mohamed (tell me, you have detected a distinct patten in the names of terrorists...) He wasn't arrested and sent to Cuba, which would be wrong. He was held up at the border for a few hours and talked down to.
3) Quite a few muslims who have "served their country" have done crazy stuff. And away from islam, didn't Tim McVeigh "serve his country"? Quite a few of the ultra-violent Hispanic and black gang members in LA have "served their country". Doesn't mean shti.
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| They should be able to expunge his name from their data base, and have an organized system, but clearly they don't, and he is paying the price. |
He changed his name, visits foreign nations regularly and is muslim. I'm sorry, partner, but that sets off red flags. National security isn't a playground for leftist identity politics.
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His rights have been clearly violated as a citizen with the harassment he has faced. Your disregard of a citizen's rights
doesn't seem well-placed. |
He was detained at the border and talked down to. Move on, adventurer. Bigger issues.
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| If he was a member of some radical mosque, then I might understand. |
You don't know that he isn't. All that you know is that some leftist rag took up his cause.
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| It is the thinking of above that led the SS to kill many Jews in Europe. |
All it took was one post for the nazi comparisons to come out. Are you feeling particularly weak on your position this time around? You leftists all use the same tools, all the time.
But let us walk you through your logic.
1) The Nazi's tried to kill all the Jews, and got several million of them.
2) I think it valid that a dude named mohamad, who travels internationally lots and has changed his name, gets extra scrutiny at the border.
3) Ergo, I'm a nazi.
It's so easy a child could play!
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| They looked at a tiny Jewish elite and used their disdain for them to justify their extermination of a whole race whether they were rich or poor, religious or socialists. It didn't matter. |
Exactly right, and that is why there is no relation. This guy fits the profile of a particular type of person that might yell ALLLAAAHHH in a crowded theater. All muslims don't go through this every time they enter and exit. This guy does, because he has three flags.
In addition, the Toronto area is a hotbed of radical islam, due to the British Pakistanis who preach at the mosques there. You should follow the counter-terrorism literature, adventurer, you might be startled at what "new Canadians" are up to! |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
Exactly right, and that is why there is no relation. This guy fits the profile of a particular type of person that might yell ALLLAAAHHH in a crowded theater. All muslims don't go through this every time they enter and exit. This guy does, because he has three flags.
In addition, the Toronto area is a hotbed of radical islam, due to the British Pakistanis who preach at the mosques there. You should follow the counter-terrorism literature, adventurer, you might be startled at what "new Canadians" are up to! |
There is something called being innocent until proven guilty. Changing your name after marrying a Muslim woman is protected. You have a right to believe in whatever religion you choose without facing persecution or harassment. He has been harassed repeatedly without proofing being
presented. Your dismissal of this as being serious, because he happens to be a member of minority you don't care for still ends up violating the constitutional rights he has an American citizen. He is a citizen whether he believes in the tooth fairy or Sindbad the Sailor, or God. I mean a member of Congress is a Muslim. Should he get stopped for being a Muslim. He converted to Islam. He must be dangerous. Yes, some converts, are very radical like Richard Reed.
There is nothing wrong with monitoring mosques, but harassing a citizen repeatedly with no proof is a violation of his rights just like stopping someone for driving while black. There is nothing wrong with questioning him, but the fellow was harassed including over his disagreement over U.S. foreign policy. There is such a thing as freedom of speech and your religion shouldn't change that unless you are calling for an attack on the U.S. I am not against toughening security when accepting immigrants from certain countries, but I am not for suspending the constitution just because someone has a different religion. Why can't the government get their sh*t together and organize themselves and take someone who hasn't been shown to be a threat off their list? |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| I see nothing wrong here. The US government has a duty to protect the country from danger and guess what partner, Islam has proven itself to be a threat |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: |
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The US govt ought to give him a check for 350 dollars as compensation for his lost time.
As for the rest keep everthing the same. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: |
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How is that fair?
That's the sort of behavior that gains support and followers for terrorist groups. Disenfranchise the people who are on your side....A truly brilliant strategy 
And to top it off, the guy was in the freaking National guard for 20 years! That's more than the current U.S. president EVER did.... |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:36 am Post subject: |
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And just imagine if the guy were a new immigrant (legal) to America!! All the hatemongers on this board would be yelling for his head......... And for what, being human?
Just imagine if he'd been??? What do these unfortunates have to endure?
DD |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
How is that fair?
That's the sort of behavior that gains support and followers for terrorist groups. Disenfranchise the people who are on your side....A truly brilliant strategy
And to top it off, the guy was in the freaking National guard for 20 years! That's more than the current U.S. president EVER did.... |
I agree but the US will be attacked if it doesn't have tough security. compensate him for his time.
The US president served honorably in the national guard . Which is more than any of the Democratic candidates have done. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:24 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
How is that fair?
That's the sort of behavior that gains support and followers for terrorist groups. Disenfranchise the people who are on your side....A truly brilliant strategy
And to top it off, the guy was in the freaking National guard for 20 years! That's more than the current U.S. president EVER did.... |
I agree but the US will be attacked if it doesn't have tough security. compensate him for his time.
The US president served honorably in the national guard . Which is more than any of the Democratic candidates have done. |
I just think it's odd because there are plenty of Muslims who don't change their name or don't have a Muslim sounding name. If the border patrol asked every person going though if they were Muslim, I'd grudgingly accept it but that's not the case. They are going "Hey....you changed your name so you must be some hardcore gun totting, bomb making extremist Muslim." (Yes...I am exaggerating, give me some leeway!) My problem is with the leap to judgement...that's what got us in the war....but that's a whole other thread.
As for Bush serving honorably in the guard...did they ever sort that whole thing out? I got sick of the bickering and face (or was it ass) saving....once again, a whole other thread  |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Serves him right for marrying a Canadian.
It's a joke! |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Terrorism is, in this day and age dominatnely three issues.
1) Domestic policing
2) Financial monitoring
3) Border vigilance
Now, we have to be sure that "we" don't become like "them", but being detained at the border, even if many times, isn't exactly a big deal. You are also assuming that there isn't more to the story, which is a tad naive. Identity politics as they are, that leftist rag wouldn't mention his "connections" if he tattooed them on his head.
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| There is something called being innocent until proven guilty. |
Do you understand what a border is? Entering the nation, even if you are a citizen, is a legal process of approval/disapproval. All border guards have is suspicion.
Do you remember that muslim from Montreal? He was religiously profiled en route to blow up LAX. I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but profiling is THE MOST useful tool that security services have. That doesn't mean that all muslims are guilty, but this guy fit a profile due to his religion IN ADDITION to two other factors.
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| Changing your name after marrying a Muslim woman is protected. |
Protected from what? Does that mean that if I change my name to Ali the flunky border guards in Miami will be required to leave me alone next time I fly in? Dude, WTF is wrong with you? Is that what you are saying? That because he changed his name he must not be profiled? Would you have cared if he were profiled if not from the precious protected minority group du jour?
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| You have a right to believe in whatever religion you choose without facing persecution or harassment. |
Sure. And the Americans have the right to ask whatever questions they want as well. The government also has the right to detain you upon entering the country under suspicion from a border guard. Unless you would like the little ol' lady from Leduc to be treated the same as a 22 year old bearded, PJ wearing muslim from Dearborn.
Life doesn't work like that. Sorry.
| Quote: |
Firstly,
He has been harassed repeatedly without proofing being
presented. Your dismissal of this as being serious, because he happens to be a member of minority you don't care for still ends up violating the constitutional rights he has an American citizen. |
You don't know anything other than what a leftist rag told you. You only know his side of the story.
But I like the "minority you don't care for" part. I also don't care for you, but I wouldn't want you pulled aside for being a ninny. Nor a 70 year old muslim woman. But a young muslim man. Yup. Increased scrutiny please. Border security have a job to do. A real one. A very important one. Terrorism can only be fought using very few means.
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| He is a citizen whether he believes in the tooth fairy or Sindbad the Sailor, or God. |
You don't know that. You are assuming. Border police can not just assume that every person who perfectly fits the profile of a mass murder isn't cause if makes the left uncomfortable. Sorry.
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I mean a member of Congress is a Muslim. Should he get stopped for being a Muslim. He converted to Islam. He must be dangerous.
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I really wonder about you.
The purpose of the stop is not to prove that he is crazy, or assert that he is crazy, but to ensure that he isn't. Increased scrutiny for individuals that fit several aspects of a typical description.
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| There is nothing wrong with monitoring mosques, but harassing a citizen repeatedly with no proof is a violation of his rights just like stopping someone for driving while black. |
Driving around town is quite different than entering and exiting the United States.
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| There is nothing wrong with questioning him, but the fellow was harassed including over his disagreement over U.S. foreign policy. |
Today, I interviewed at a very large firm. They literally badgered and harassed me in the interview. They took it very far, for a very long time. They did so to see how I would react. They wanted to see a guy melt under pressure. It is a tactic dude. They wanted to provoke him into admitting things. Jesus. Did you grow up at Disney Land? Watch a cop show! I was once questioned in Miami for having Richard Pipes's "Communism, a History". They took all my crap apart and asked me all sorts of weird questions about Castro and Che. This is what is done.
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There is such a thing as freedom of speech and your religion shouldn't change that unless you are calling for an attack on the U.S. |
He was entering/exiting a country!!!! Not going to Sev for a slurpee!!
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| I am not against toughening security when accepting immigrants from certain countries, but I am not for suspending the constitution just because someone has a different religion. |
Show me where it says "Congress shall pass no law permitting the questioning of young convert muslim men who fit the profile of a terrorist when entering from Canada by car". Show me.
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| Why can't the government get their sh*t together and organize themselves and take someone who hasn't been shown to be a threat off their list? |
Because governments no longer hire on ability, or pay for merit. The same reason that schools suck. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
Exactly right, and that is why there is no relation. This guy fits the profile of a particular type of person that might yell ALLLAAAHHH in a crowded theater. All muslims don't go through this every time they enter and exit. This guy does, because he has three flags.
In addition, the Toronto area is a hotbed of radical islam, due to the British Pakistanis who preach at the mosques there. You should follow the counter-terrorism literature, adventurer, you might be startled at what "new Canadians" are up to! |
There is something called being innocent until proven guilty. Changing your name after marrying a Muslim woman is protected. You have a right to believe in whatever religion you choose without facing persecution or harassment. He has been harassed repeatedly without proofing being
presented. Your dismissal of this as being serious, because he happens to be a member of minority you don't care for still ends up violating the constitutional rights he has an American citizen. He is a citizen whether he believes in the tooth fairy or Sindbad the Sailor, or God. I mean a member of Congress is a Muslim. Should he get stopped for being a Muslim. He converted to Islam. He must be dangerous. Yes, some converts, are very radical like Richard Reed.
There is nothing wrong with monitoring mosques, but harassing a citizen repeatedly with no proof is a violation of his rights just like stopping someone for driving while black. There is nothing wrong with questioning him, but the fellow was harassed including over his disagreement over U.S. foreign policy. There is such a thing as freedom of speech and your religion shouldn't change that unless you are calling for an attack on the U.S. I am not against toughening security when accepting immigrants from certain countries, but I am not for suspending the constitution just because someone has a different religion. Why can't the government get their sh*t together and organize themselves and take someone who hasn't been shown to be a threat off their list? |
BJWD did a good job of showing how naive and childish your "thinking" and "reasoning" are. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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BJWD,
I don't even have the breath to respond other than to say that you are a good arguement for stating that at the very least, "terrorists" are winning "the war".
DD |
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