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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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 Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| They sure are bad guys. Too bad the American military is occupied with a civil war in Iraq. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| They sure are bad guys. Too bad the American military is occupied with a civil war in Iraq. |
Are the Bathists or the Khomeni followers any nicer?
Al Qaeda exists cause the mideast is the way it is. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Al Qaeda exists cause the mideast is the way it is. |
The mideast is the way it is because western powers drew the lines on the map over there. Sorry, but it's true. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Al Qaeda exists cause the mideast is the way it is. |
The mideast is the way it is because western powers drew the lines on the map over there. Sorry, but it's true. |
There is some truth to that.
However that is also like saying the treaty of Treaty of Versailles is the reason that world war II Germany was the way it was.
Or it is like saying brutal tactics during the civil war like Sherman's march were the reason the Klu Klux Klan came into being.
It doesn't excuse anything.
But Europe is also responsible for the way the mideast is in another way.
The fascism of Europe made its way to the mideast and it is a major contributor to the ideologies of Bathism, Khomenism and Al Qaedism. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| twg wrote: |
| They sure are bad guys. Too bad the American military is occupied with a civil war in Iraq. |
Are the Bathists or the Khomeni followers any nicer? |
A is not related to B nor related to C. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| except that they teach hate , incite violence and they support terror. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Al Qaeda exists cause the mideast is the way it is. |
The mideast is the way it is because western powers drew the lines on the map over there. Sorry, but it's true. |
There is some truth to that. |
Wow, I think that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me, after years of us both saying bad things to each other. Just can't recall a single moment you ever acknowledged for a moment that anything I said ever might be true. I'm humbled. Are we both getting mellow, or something?
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| However that is also like saying the treaty of Treaty of Versailles is the reason that world war II Germany was the way it was. |
Thing is, I think I've read some historians who said exactly that. Pretty sure my 4th grade history teacher said it. He coulda been wrong, sure ...
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| Or it is like saying brutal tactics during the civil war like Sherman's march were the reason the Klu Klux Klan came into being. |
Lotta people know more about the Civil War than me, won't pretend to know more than I do. The Klan is an ugly part of American history, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, working hard for second place against the deaths of M L King and Bobby Kennedy.
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| It doesn't excuse anything. |
Nothing excuses anything. Things are how they are. You and I both know they can be better. We just disagree about how. Something I've always respected about you, Joo - you DO want things to be better.
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But Europe is also responsible for the way the mideast is in another way.
The fascism of Europe made its way to the mideast and it is a major contributor to the ideologies of Bathism, Khomenism and Al Qaedism. |
Um, you might be right but you really think the only solution available right now is to just drop bombs on people?
There's a little bit of fascism left in Europe. Maybe we should drop some bombs there, too.
You think?
Just sayin' ... I got a hammer here, let's all go looking for nails. Hey, why not? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| m, you might be right but you really think the only solution available right now is to just drop bombs on people? |
No , but in the 1990s 70,000 trained in Al Qaeda camps.
What was happening then? The US was protecting muslims in Iraq and in Kosovo and Somalia. The US was trying to bring peace between the Israelis and the Palestinian side.
I don't know how to say this is a better way. The govts and too many of the elites in the mideast are bad and not just a little bad they have their goals and they mean business. It is not like Europe . in Europe the bad guys are suppressed and under control most of the time. In the mideast the bad guys rule or have the freedom to act. I think you have seen enough cut and pastes. But Saddam , Khomeni and Bin Laden are worse than bad and so are those that support their agenda .
The US has no right to steal mideast oil. The US has no right to force the mideast to sell oil to the US. The US has no right to force the mideast to accept capitalism but the US doesn't have to accept a war even a low level one being waged against it.
The US isn't bothering Khaffay any more why? Cause he quit his war - most of it. It isn't like he is suffering for it either. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| I think you have seen enough cut and pastes. |
Oh, we all have, and I truly did expect another one. Thank you for surprising me. I think the two of us might be speaking right into each other's eyes with complete honesty for the very first time. Dunno about you, but it's a happy moment for me.
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| The US has no right to steal mideast oil. The US has no right to force the mideast to sell oil to the US. The US has no right to force the mideast to accept capitalism but the US doesn't have to accept a war even a low level one being waged against it. |
This is about 85% wonderful, and it's close enough that I just might put it in my sigline and give you credit after I get bored with the whole Cindy Sheehan thing.
Gonna leave myself open for a lot of abuse, but the "war" you're talking about is just two very tall buildings. Haven't checked the latest body counts, but the most recent total of body bags coming back from Iraq is pretty close to the number killed in the WTC on November 11, 2001. If we haven't reached the same number yet, we will soon. Numbers are just numbers, though, I know that.
The number of Iraqis killed, either as combatants or collateral damage, much higher, of course. But, um, numbers are just numbers ... and, you know, when you've been dead a hundred years, you're just beginning to be dead. Dead just goes on and on.
How many is enough?
I'm just saying, not one more. Not even one. End it. End it now.
How many is enough, Joo? How many?
Not one more. Not even one.
Last edited by The Bobster on Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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I am in total favour of killing, in cold blood, members of AQ.
Bush isn't doing that.
He let OBL get away at ToraBora and made war on a state that was unrelated to the terrorist attack that set this all off.
If we want to fight AQ, it will be done with unshaven men walking around the streets of Pakistan in covert ops. Not with battalions of Marines. Take the war underground. Take the war to them, in their homes.
But get the fucking hell out of Iraq first. Being there is making it worse. It is making islam worse. It is making Iran stronger. It is decreasing Western causes all over the world. It is a total failure (like dd!). Just get out. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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Gonna leave myself open for a lot of abuse, but the "war" you're talking about is just two very tall buildings. Haven't checked the latest body counts, but the most recent total of body bags coming back from Iraq is pretty close to the number killed in the WTC on November 11, 2001. If we haven't reached the same number yet, we will soon. Numbers are just numbers, though, I know that.
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The war was more than two buildings on 9-11.
WTC terrorists didn't come from Afghanistan they came from Saudi Arabia and Egypt.
it was Saddam trying to conquer the gulf. it was Iran attacking the US at Khobar . It is too many mideast regimes teaching hate and inciting violence as a tactic of war. It is Iran supporting terror and helping the insurgents with IEDs . It is mideast regimes and elites funding Al Qaeda. It is the Indonesian cleric that was behind the Bali bombing allowed to be free.
The US lost more soliders fighting in Okinawa than at pearl harbor.
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The number of Iraqis killed, either as combatants or collateral damage, much higher, of course. But, um,.numbers are just numbers ... and, you know, when you've been dead a hundred years, you're just beginning to be dead. Dead just goes on and on. |
US actions in Iraq also saved lives. Saddam were he to have gone free would have likely killed many more Kurds and Shia. The US could not contain Saddam forever. Saddam had other nations like Kuwait in his sites as well. Notice that for years after the gulf war he refused to recognize Kuwait.
Lives saved cause of US actions count too.
How many is enough?
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| I'm just saying, not one more. Not even one. End it. End it now. |
End it when the Bathists , those who follow Khomeni and the Al Qaedists give up their war. If they don't want to give up their war then the US ought to escalate with more aggressive tactics and weapons until they do.
The US doesn't have to accept a war against it. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 8:34 am Post subject: |
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| End it now. Right now. Even assuming it's a job that has to be done, who said America has to do it? |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| End it now. Right now. Even assuming it's a job that has to be done, who said America has to do it? |
Because it was America who was attacked on 9/11. Because America has been the number 1 target for these guys for a long long time. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
[. Haven't checked the latest body counts, but the most recent total of body bags coming back from Iraq is pretty close to the number killed in the WTC on November 11, 2001. If we haven't reached the same number yet, we will soon. Numbers are just numbers, though, I know that.
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See I've never understood this argument. This isn't a game of tit-for-tat.
This is war. When some guy attacks and kills say 3000 of your people you don't strike back and kill 3000 of his and then say "Okay let's call it even, all right?" You hit him so hard, that even though he may not be destroyed he'll think twice before doing that again. |
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