Korean Job Discussion Forums

Kyrei · Joined: 22 Jan 2003

Just a question to other uni instructors here: Do you see any sort of ethical conflict in passing some students because of extenuating circumstances who would otherwise not pass while failing others?

Case in point: I have a student in a first-year class, age 30. He is a North Korean, who obviously has had a difficult life. His tales (mostly in Korean) of travelling as a child with a parent through China, Vietnam and into Thailand on his way to South Korea make for interesting discussion. However, the course he has enrolled in is an essay writing/presentation preparation course. He has done none of the email-based homework and his English abilities are almost non-existent. He can barely form a coherent sentence nevermind a paragraph or essay.

I feel for the guy, really I do. I have no real problem giving the guy a "buy" and passing him through at a 60 (D). However, what about others in the class that fail? I mean, they at least attempted the homework (in some cases) and the essays but just did a piss-poor job of it. Is it wrong to pass the one through but not the others?

oldfatfarang · Joined: 19 May 2005 Location: On the road to somewhere.

If he's not up to scratch - or even looking like it - he can't pass. Simple.
His unfortunate life should have nothing to do with awarding his academic grade - especially if he hasn't been able to do the coursework or homework.

From what I've read on Daves' - many K unis don't fail students anyway. So give him his true grade and let the uni sort it out.

poet13 · Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject:

I agree with oldfatfarang. Don't compromise your ethics. Your uni may very well pass him anyways, in which case, problem solved. If they pass him, they are EDIT>>> NOT doing him and the value of a degree in this country a favor.

EDIT >>> added NOT Embarassed

Young FRANKenstein · Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:15 am Post subject:

Fail'em all. If the office wants to pass them, let THEM change the grades. I refuse to put my signature on such nonsense, though.

Ilsanman · Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Location: Bucheon, Korea

Everyone has some sob story and some excuse for failing. It's not your job to play the world's smallest violin. Fail his ass.

VirginIslander · Joined: 24 May 2006 Location: Busan

Compromise: fail him but dedicate an hour or two a week to tutoring him.

makemischief · Joined: 04 Nov 2005 Location: Traveling

thegadfly · Joined: 01 Feb 2003

I just want to point out that actually you would merely be giving a score consistent with your grading policies, not "failing him." Failing a student is when you stop trying to be an ethical professional.

His score is below a D? He gets below a D. You want to help him? Tutor him or send him to someone to get tutoring -- heck, a kick in the arse may be the BEST way to help him -- everyone has a sob story, but you can't ride that story your whole life.

Kyrei · Joined: 22 Jan 2003

To be clear and to his credit, he has never once used his "I am North Korean" as a sob story. I am fairly confident he does not understand much of anything that has gone on in the course, or me at all (in English). He is just hopeless at using English in any real sense. He has not had the "experience" that others had in middle- and high schools here which is why I was/am willing to let him slide. He apparently has little or no practical experience with computers or the Internet. The others in his group did more than their fair share in carrying him through the two presentations, especially as far as setting up his PowerPoitn slides and so on...

The course is no longer a requirement as such, but an "English credit" is required, just not necessarily my course. I have never heard of my school changing one of my grades behind my back, nor have they ever expressed an interest in who failed. AFAIK those who were given an 'F' in my grade reports actually received it.

I generally do not curve grades, but let them stand as they come in. Although, due to the rather subjective nature of the grading of a course such as mine, based as it is on essays and presentation performance without standard written tests or quizzes, I am willing to to be generous to those that sit on the cusp of a grade. I tend to see students who have completed all the assignments, attended all classes and performed all required tasks as having met the basic requirements for a 'D' and then they are graded upwards from there. Those that have missed any of the above, plagiarised or translated work fail.

In the end, I guess this means I should stick to my standards, such as they are, and that the NorK gets the grade he earned; about 35/100, especially since he didn't submit any email homework (totalling 20% of the overall grade). I just felt really bad for the guy. Thinking back on it, I am quite confident he is competely oblivious to the existence of such homework. He kind of fell between the cracks amongst the 250 students I had this semester.

jellobean · Joined: 14 Mar 2006

If the student is oblivious to the assignment, has he failed to do the assignment or have you failed to communicate the requirements.... (This does not mean to be negative towards you...) I give out descriptions of my projects in Korean (thanks to a great friend who is willing to translate for me) so my students don't have that excuse, but if you gave all the assignments in English and you believe that he would have attempted it had he known it existed then perhaps you could treat him as you would other students who had attempted the assignment.... Just my thoughts, but then I'm a bit generous since my courses are all required.... I only fail the ones who don't show up (and fail the exams) or don't try/are disrespectful (and fail the exams).....

tzechuk · Joined: 20 Dec 2004

What are his reasons for not doing any of his work?

Is it because he thought that he had a hard life and deserved special treatment?

If so, fail him, for sure.

In any case, if he's not done any of his assignments, he deserves a fail grade.

yingwenlaoshi · Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: ... location, location!

Privateer · Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.

He's at an unfair disadvantage because, unlike the majority who, with their grounding in English from school, are false beginners, he's a real beginner and doesn't really belong on the course. On the other hand an English credit is required, so I say give him a break and pass him (unless perhaps there's another English course available more suited to beginners). He's going to face enough negative discrimination in his life, and be handicapped by his lack of computer skills, so treat him to some positive discrimination for a change.

It's not like you're robbing anyone else by giving him a passing grade. By the sounds of it, you're doing a lot of students favours by giving them Ds anyway. Make this a bigger favour with more justification for it.

poet13 · Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject:

"He has not had the "experience" that others had in middle- and high schools here which is why I was/am willing to let him slide."

I don't think that's a good reason.

"Thinking back on it, I am quite confident he is competely oblivious to the existence of such homework. He kind of fell between the cracks amongst the 250 students I had this semester."

If he truly is oblivious to the concept of homework, then I think I would exclude that part of his grade. Dont know how I would deal with the rest though. Hie fellow students have apparently helpe him quite a bit. How do THEY feel about him?

I dont think reverse discrimination is the answer. It's an interesting dilemna, and I'm not sure how well I would handle it either. I know most of us like to say, "Here are my rules, break them at your peril!", but when it comes down to individual situations, we often find ourselves making arguments for why just THIS one should be the exception to the rule.

Whatever you do decide to do, I'm sure it will be the best for the situation. The fact that you have posted it and engaged in this discourse shows a great deal about how seriously you take it and how much you care.
Please do let us know what happens.

The_Conservative · Joined: 15 Mar 2007