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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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cubanlord

Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Location: In Japan!
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: Korea's top employer in respect to the E-2 visa holder |
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alright, here is my top pic:
Private elementary schools
Why? In private elementary schools, you have more control over how the contract and its contents are implemented and you have more say in what goes on in the classroom. In a private elementary school, there is more of a possibility to have better cohesiveness among employees and administration than you would in other places of work.
What is your preferred place of employment and why? (keep in mind I am talking about the overall package e.g. pay, vacation, people you work with, etc.). |
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Yu_Bum_suk

Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: Korea's top employer in respect to the E-2 visa holder |
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| cubanlord wrote: |
What is your preferred place of employment and why? (keep in mind I am talking about the overall package e.g. pay, vacation, people you work with, etc.). |
Any place that doesn't have children under the age of 12, for a start. |
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Saxiif

Joined: 15 May 2003 Location: Seongnam
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| What is your preferred place of employment and why? |
SAT-prep hagwons.
Because: $$$ |
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insam
Joined: 17 May 2007
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I've only worked in a private international school (although it was E-7) and in a SAT prep institute. Both were good in their respective ways. |
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Gamecock

Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Private elementary schools |
I'm not sure what you mean here. Is this private, as in Christian schools? International Schools? Hogwans?
| Quote: |
| Why? In private elementary schools, you have more control over how the contract and its contents are implemented and you have more say in what goes on in the classroom. In a private elementary school, there is more of a possibility to have better cohesiveness among employees and administration than you would in other places of work. |
And where is this "control" coming from? "Control over how the contract and its contents are implemented?" Huh? I guess you can negotiate before you sign, which you can't do in a public school...but how do you have control over how your contract is implemented? More "say" on what goes on in the classroom? Haha. It is very rare that you are given any freedom to do what you want in the classroom, ESPECIALLY in the private sector! And how would cohesiveness among employees be better in a private elementary school. None of this makes any sense to me. But then, I'm not even sure what you mean by "private elementary school." Perhaps it is something different than I have experienced altogether...Hmmm...
In any event, in my mind the public school (level of your choice) is the best place to work with an E-2 if you are lucky enough to have decent co-teachers (that is if you don't have the credentials to get a REAL university job). Great schedule, good vacations (especially if you are hired by your individual school or district, and not by a province), a million random days/classes off, overtime that pays well (which most people don't factor into the public school jobs when comparing salaries to hogwans), and generally alot higher respect from Koreans than a hogwan teacher. |
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cubanlord

Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Location: In Japan!
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Gamecock wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Private elementary schools |
I'm not sure what you mean here. Is this private, as in Christian schools? International Schools? Hogwans?
| Quote: |
| Why? In private elementary schools, you have more control over how the contract and its contents are implemented and you have more say in what goes on in the classroom. In a private elementary school, there is more of a possibility to have better cohesiveness among employees and administration than you would in other places of work. |
And where is this "control" coming from? "Control over how the contract and its contents are implemented?" Huh? I guess you can negotiate before you sign, which you can't do in a public school...but how do you have control over how your contract is implemented? More "say" on what goes on in the classroom? Haha. It is very rare that you are given any freedom to do what you want in the classroom, ESPECIALLY in the private sector! And how would cohesiveness among employees be better in a private elementary school. None of this makes any sense to me. But then, I'm not even sure what you mean by "private elementary school." Perhaps it is something different than I have experienced altogether...Hmmm...
In any event, in my mind the public school (level of your choice) is the best place to work with an E-2 if you are lucky enough to have decent co-teachers (that is if you don't have the credentials to get a REAL university job). Great schedule, good vacations (especially if you are hired by your individual school or district, and not by a province), a million random days/classes off, overtime that pays well (which most people don't factor into the public school jobs when comparing salaries to hogwans), and generally alot higher respect from Koreans than a hogwan teacher. |
Hello Gamecock,
Private institutions, in this context, refers to those that do not have to adhere to the government's rules and regulations and are privately funded. My private elementary school has their own board to which they answer and are completely funded by the parents. As a result, we are a private institution.
I am the one that wrote the contract which the school currently uses. Therefore, I have control over it and the way in which it is implemented. In other words, the school cannot just 'make things up' and decide that is how it will work (as many hogwons do). Believe it or not, I have a lot of power and influence in my school.
In regards to having a say in the class, I dictate what is taught and what books or materials are used in the classrooms (minus the textbooks for immersion). Thus, contrary to what you believe and have experienced, I (and the other teachers at my school) control the curriculum.
In my opinion, it is vital to have cohesiveness among staff. The more harmony, the better. I would hate to wake up every morning (like many EFL teachers do) and dred going to work. A happy work enviornment leads to a happy person.
Is there anything else I can clear up for you?  |
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latinthrilla
Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: private schools |
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A private elementary school is funded mostly by the parents of the students. It acts independtly with it's own board and decision makers. It submits to government regulations but not to the public school board. In almost all cases the children who attend these schools come from higher income families (as tutions range from 1-10 million a month, yes that is not a typo). When you see kids going to school with really nice uniforms they usually attend one of these schools.
The OP is correct. You do have almost total control in your class. The programs are very important (since parents are paying for it) but the implementation is usually up to you. When the school plans the program the teachers have a lot of input in it but in the end it is their call.
Contracts are usually strictly followed as the school has a reputation to maintain and doesn't want any bad press. In most cases the schools will go above and beyond in terms of more vacation time and better living conditions, accomdating personal situations . Since it is an elementary school there are also a million random days/classes off. Generally, people who work here are held in higher regard than public school teachers but not as high as uni teachers.
I know of some schools that are very cheap in terms of monetary compensation but working conditions and hours rock. Lowest pay I've seen is 1.8 (keep in mind they work just a few hours a day). Highest pay is about 2.4 (keep in mind 2-3 months vacations, great working life, nice apartments, no worries etc.).
Workings hours end around 1, 2, 3 and max 4pm and start at 8 or 9. There isn't a lot of overtime at these places though since kids have to attend their hogwons, or orchestra and other things.
There are also private middle schools and high schools but I don't know much about them. If someone does feel free to post. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: private schools |
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| latinthrilla wrote: |
. Generally, people who work here are held in higher regard than public school teachers but not as high as uni teachers.
I. |
I'm going to call B.S. on this one. You can't possibly know this unless you have spoken to the majority of Koreans and solicited their opinion on how they feel about public school teachers vs private school teachers.
This is your opinion and that's fine...but don't try and present it as established fact. Maybe the parents who send their kids there feel that way, but I very much doubt that is an opinion held by the majority of people. When you are out and about there is no way people can tell where you work or what you do. |
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Gamecock

Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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That's a really cool situation cuban. I haven't encountered these private elementary schools before. There can't be an abundance of them. It sounds ideal.
| Quote: |
I'm going to call B.S. on this one. You can't possibly know this unless you have spoken to the majority of Koreans and solicited their opinion on how they feel about public school teachers vs private school teachers.
This is your opinion and that's fine...but don't try and present it as established fact. Maybe the parents who send their kids there feel that way, but I very much doubt that is an opinion held by the majority of people. When you are out and about there is no way people can tell where you work or what you do. |
Someone sounds a little defensive about their hogwan position. No, I haven't solicited the opinion of a majority of Koreans (nor have I asked a majority of Koreans if they like Kimchi, but I would venture a guess that such a statement would be a solid "opinon." ). The basis of my statement is from personal experience as both a hogwan teacher and a public school teacher. Obviously, when walking down the street no one knows where I work. When I am frequently asked where I work, however, I was surprised at the difference in response after I started working at a public school. When I inquired about the difference among many Koreans, I found that generally people believe you must be more qualified to work in a public school in the same way they think Korean public school teachers are more qualified than Korean hogwan teachers. It is a completely foundless belief, but prevalant nontheless. |
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latinthrilla
Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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I've lived with my gf for over a year now (who is Korean). She also is the owner of her own hogwon. I also have my own business sending Korean students to Canada for homestay and deal with Korean parents a lot. I spend more time with Koreans than with English speakers here even though I live in Seoul. So, yes I do know how most people view us here, at least in Seoul. I can't say anything outside of Seoul.
You are right, we we are walking about no one knows what we do and they view us in their own way. But when you tell them where you work you are judged accordingly and it goes something like this for teachers:
Hogwon
public
private
uni
Having said that, this is not the case for for every school but in general that is it. How do I know this? Like I said, my gf owns a hogwon, deals with parents everyday. I deal with parents constently as well. Why do you think people pay so much money every month to send their kids to a private school if the school isn't better in all respects (check out the schools in Gangnams that charge the crazy tutions, my gf attended one of these growing up).
Everything is about connections here if you attend one of these schools you get your kids connected from the start. Because of this teachers who work at these places are seen in a higher regard. So that is it. If you still disagree feel free to post your reasons why.
I'm not putting anybody down, sorry if you took it like that. But where you work does affect how Korean people judge you. The more reputable your employer, the better you look in their eyes. That is a fact. |
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cranura

Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| As far as I can ascertain, private school teachers have not passed the government teacher exam, whereas public school teachers must pass it (at least that's how my co-teacher in a private high school explained the difference). |
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latinthrilla
Joined: 10 Feb 2006
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, that is true but for Korean teachers only. The reason is that if you pass that exam you become a civil servant and get those comfy benefits. Private schools operate on their own schemes so Korean teachers prefer civil servant jobs. Many of those who don't pass the exams go to private schools.
However, the reputation of the school is what people care about (reputation assumes higher education even if it isn't true). There are also public schools with higher reputations than private schools but in general that is not that case.
Oh and working at a high school is usually seen in better light than working at an elementary school private or public. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Gamecock wrote: |
That's a really cool situation cuban. I haven't encountered these private elementary schools before. There can't be an abundance of them. It sounds ideal.
| Quote: |
I'm going to call B.S. on this one. You can't possibly know this unless you have spoken to the majority of Koreans and solicited their opinion on how they feel about public school teachers vs private school teachers.
This is your opinion and that's fine...but don't try and present it as established fact. Maybe the parents who send their kids there feel that way, but I very much doubt that is an opinion held by the majority of people. When you are out and about there is no way people can tell where you work or what you do. |
Someone sounds a little defensive about their hogwan position.
I don't work at a hogwan
No, I haven't solicited the opinion of a majority of Koreans (nor have I asked a majority of Koreans if they like Kimchi, but I would venture a guess that such a statement would be a solid "opinon." ).
I was talking to latinthrilla, not to you. Guess we've found your sock.
The basis of my statement is from personal experience as both a hogwan teacher and a public school teacher.
Again I was quoting latinthrilla. Why would you claim that "the basis of MY statement" (capitals mine).
Obviously, when walking down the street no one knows where I work. When I am frequently asked where I work, however, I was surprised at the difference in response after I started working at a public school. When I inquired about the difference among many Koreans, I found that generally people believe you must be more qualified to work in a public school in the same way they think Korean public school teachers are more qualified than Korean hogwan teachers. It is a completely foundless belief, but prevalant nontheless. |
I experienced the same thing. Working at a public school gives you a lot more respect...regardless of whether it is deserved or not...although this seems more pronunced in rural communities. |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| latinthrilla wrote: |
I've lived with my gf for over a year now (who is Korean). She also is the owner of her own hogwon. I also have my own business sending Korean students to Canada for homestay and deal with Korean parents a lot. I spend more time with Koreans than with English speakers here even though I live in Seoul. So, yes I do know how most people view us here, at least in Seoul. I can't say anything outside of Seoul.
You are right, we we are walking about no one knows what we do and they view us in their own way. But when you tell them where you work you are judged accordingly and it goes something like this for teachers:
Hogwon
public
private
uni
Again you are basing your comments on a few Koreans. That may be what the parents in YOUR area think, but that does not necessarily hold true for most Koreans. In fact I'm told that its Hakwons, private, public and uni. However I don't claim that that is the case for most Koreans, simply pointing out that you can not claim that your experiences are the norm.
Having said that, this is not the case for for every school but in general that is it. How do I know this? Like I said, my gf owns a hogwon, deals with parents everyday. I deal with parents constently as well. Why do you think people pay so much money every month to send their kids to a private school if the school isn't better in all respects (check out the schools in Gangnams that charge the crazy tutions, my gf attended one of these growing up).
Everything is about connections here if you attend one of these schools you get your kids connected from the start. Because of this teachers who work at these places are seen in a higher regard. So that is it. If you still disagree feel free to post your reasons why.
Seems to me like the SCHOOL is held in a high regard. The teachers are replaceable by any white face with a degree. Tell you what. Get all your foreign co-workers together and ask for a substantial degree in pay. You will quickly see that "high regard" vanish.
I'm not putting anybody down, sorry if you took it like that. But where you work does affect how Korean people judge you. The more reputable your employer, the better you look in their eyes. That is a fact. |
I never disagreed with this. But it's been my experience that public schools are regarded as more reputable than private ones.
In the end it boils down to personal experience. All I am asking that that you don't extrapolate yours to be representative of most Koreans. Thanks |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| latinthrilla wrote: |
However, the reputation of the school is what people care about (. |
Exactly. It's the school not the FT's who happen to work there. |
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