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Alias

Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: 'No massacre in Nanking,' Japanese lawmakers say |
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TOKYO: About 100 Japanese governing party lawmakers denounced the Nanjing Massacre as a fabrication on Tuesday, contesting Chinese claims that Japanese soldiers killed hundreds of thousands of people after seizing the Chinese city in 1937.
The members of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's Liberal Democratic Party said there was no evidence to prove mass killings by Japanese soldiers in the captured Nationalist capital, then known as Nanking. They accused Beijing of using the alleged incident as a "political advertisement."
Nariaki Nakayama, head of the group created to study World War II historical issues and education, said documents from the Japanese government's archives indicated that about 20,000 people were killed - about one-tenth of the more commonly cited figure of 150,000 to 200,000 - in the 1937 attack. China says that as many as 300,000 people were killed.
Nanjing suffered a rampage of murder, rape and looting by Japanese troops that became known as "The Rape of Nanking."
Historians generally agree that the Japanese Army slaughtered at least 150,000 civilians and raped tens of thousands of women.
Nakayama said the study, which was initiated in part because this year is the 70th anniversary of the battle, determined there was no violation of international law.
Toru Toida, another member of the group, demanded that photographs portraying the Japanese military in a negative light be removed from Chinese war memorials.
"We are absolutely positive that there was no massacre in Nanking," Toida said. |
Oh boy....
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/19/news/nanking.php |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Compunction Junction
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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That's effed up.
Man those Japanese government officials will go to some pretty insane lengths to convince it's people that they were acting morally responsible during WWII. |
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Calling Guri Guy, calling Guri Guy ... thought you'd be here by now, actually.
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Guri Guy

Joined: 07 Sep 2003 Location: Bamboo Island
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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I am a little busy at the moment. I did notice the thread however.
Keep an open mind and be objective and we can have a civil discussion later. Otherwise, I won't bother. Thanks.  |
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The_Conservative
Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Where's Gord when you need him? He also cast doubt on the Nanjing massacre if I remember rightly.... |
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Alyallen

Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:16 am Post subject: |
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There's a time to argue and a time to shut the hell up and let sleeping dogs lie...
Good choice, guys  |
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cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006 Location: Masan
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
(some long hair from a few years back said that) |
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:38 am Post subject: |
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Guri Guy wrote: |
I am a little busy at the moment. I did notice the thread however.
Keep an open mind and be objective and we can have a civil discussion later. Otherwise, I won't bother. Thanks.  |
I guess I'm impatient. I was hoping for long clipboarded discourses from sources you have probably already cited on other threads to persuade us that most of the stuff that people say the Japanese did in WW2 was either either a lie or something or something the victims brought on themselves.
We're all hoping for that. It's what we sit with baited breath waiting for from you, Guri Guy. You are the only one among us who knows how greivously the Japanese have been maligned all these years, and we do want, oh, so much, to be educated with long passages inserted here when a simple link or two woul do the same job ...
All of that was sarcasm. I'm sure we will not be disappointed. But you DID notice the thread, hence acknowledging a wierd obsession with trying to get people to forgive a country where, for some reason, you have decided not to live and teach in ...
Okay, all of that was unfair of me, talking about YOU instead of the topic. Here is "on-topic" :
The new Japanese government aims to be even more conservative, nationalistic, and even jingoistic than the last one. The first thing they have decided to do was something that had already been begun, through textbooks and elsewise - to deny recorded history.
It's for domestic consumption, but the ultimate goal is to create a climate where Japan can build a military beyond it's present pacifist constitution, capable of "projecting force" in the region.
I like Japan. I'd prefer Japan stay in Japan, though. The idea they'd like to go elsewhere is in the history books, and it still makes people nervous.
Allyallen :
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There's a time to argue and a time to shut the hell up and let sleeping dogs lie... |
It's still early. I'm not tired yet. And who said you could call me a dog?
I like dogs, by the way ... |
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Alyallen

Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: |
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The Bobster wrote: |
It's still early. I'm not tired yet. And who said you could call me a dog?
I like dogs, by the way ... |
Damn it! I need to write more clearly...
I was referring to the politicians, not any of you lovely chaps  |
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
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Alyallen wrote: |
The Bobster wrote: |
I like dogs, by the way ... |
Damn it! I need to write more clearly... |
I really DO like dogs. Especially in these hot days of summer. And at certain restaurants I know ...
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stevemcgarrett

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Ya know, I've been to the Nanjing Memorial, my wife has family who lost everything to the Japanese elsewhere, and my father fought against the Japanese during the war, seeing their "handiwork" firsthand.
It's really despicable the lengths that many in the Japanese government will go to in denying their sordid war record. The excuse used to be that only right wing reactionaries held these views but now it's become almost mainstream.
I'd like to believe it is a matter of saving face but after nearly seven decades of mounting evidence, including countless testimony from former Japanese soldiers, that excuse has also worn thin.
While I don't condone rubbing the Japanese collective noses in their historical crap heap at every available opportunity--as Koreans are wont to do (unlike most Chinese)--they must be held accountable for their public positions, including visits to the war shrine.
On a similar note of concern: I wonder what the official Japanese position is on the scorched earth tactics it used in January and February, 1945 as they retreated from Manila. The number of civilians killed there might have exceeded the number in Nanjing, not that that alone matters much.
I'm still amazed--although I should know better--at just how many Japanese tourists to the Pearl Harbor Memorial are ignorant of what happened there too.
So here's a BIG middle finger to you wannabe samurai and all the apologists for them. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:05 am Post subject: |
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evil people. Abe's party is basically what you would get if the Germans were morally deprived like the Japanese and still had the NSDAP around. sick country. |
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Ilsanman

Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Location: Bucheon, Korea
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:05 am Post subject: |
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So the Japanese documents say 20,000 died, and the Chinese say 300,000? My guess is the true number 'lies' (good pun, huh?) somewhere between the two of them.
Though I choose not to study history based upon the fact that it's pretty much all fairy tales, I seem to see this trend within Asia, where the bullshit meter is going skyhigh. |
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YoshaMazov

Joined: 10 May 2007 Location: Suwon
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:10 am Post subject: |
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I'm surprised Abe didn't mention the time in '45 when the evil US empire dropped two atomic bombs on Japan completely unprovoked and then failed to rebuild any of the country.
Japan doesn't always make the most sound decisions. It's like the Onion headline from Our Dumb Century, "Japan Forms Alliance With White Supremacists in Well-Thought-Out Scheme" |
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Ilsanman

Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Location: Bucheon, Korea
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:16 am Post subject: |
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No, biting America's hand is more Korea's specialty.
YoshaMazov wrote: |
I'm surprised Abe didn't mention the time in '45 when the evil US empire dropped two atomic bombs on Japan completely unprovoked and then failed to rebuild any of the country.
Japan doesn't always make the most sound decisions. It's like the Onion headline from Our Dumb Century, "Japan Forms Alliance With White Supremacists in Well-Thought-Out Scheme" |
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