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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:23 am Post subject: |
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If only those nations that have bombed muslim nations were themselves bombed by muslims, this article would hold water.
Thailand is one example that comes to mind. Others are the muslim nations that muslims themselves bomb (indonesia). How about foiled plots, like in Singapore?
Sorry. The command to kill is very, very clear in the koran. Killing plays a major, central role in islam.
Here is a small sample:
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1. Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
2. Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10
3. A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24
4. Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90
5. "Whosoever hath done evil and his sin surroundeth him; such are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:81
6. If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
7. Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96
8. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104
9. For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114
10. "And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119
11. Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126
12. The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162
13. Allah is severe punishment! 2:165-6
14. They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167
15. Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174
16. How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175
17. "Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244
18. Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178
19. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
20. "Guard us from the doom of Fire." 2:201
21. Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206
22. War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
23. Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217
24. Those who marry unbelievers will burn in the Fire. 2:221
25. Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257
26. "Those who swallow usury ... are rightful owners of the Fire." 2:275
27. Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4
28. Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10
29. Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12
30. "Guard us from the punishment of Fire." 3:16
31. Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19
32. Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21
33. "They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24
34. Theirs will be a painful doom. 3:77
35. All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 3:85
36. Disbelievers will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:87-88
37. Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 3:91
38. "Ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it." 3:103
39. Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 3:105-6
40. Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 3:116
41. The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131
42. We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151
43. "Is one who followeth the pleasure of Allah as one who hath earned condemnation from Allah, whose habitation is the Fire?"
Unbelievers will burn forever in the Fire. 3:162
44. Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176
45. Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177
46. Disbelievers will have a shameful doom. 3:178
47. Whoso is removed from the Fire and is made to enter paradise, he indeed is triumphant." (The rest will burn forever in the Fire.) 3:185
48. Those who brag about doing good will go to hell. 3:188
49. "Preserve us from the doom of Fire." 3:191
50. "Our Lord! Whom Thou causest to enter the Fire: him indeed Thou hast confounded. For evil-doers there will be no helpers." 3:192
51. Disbelievers will go to Hell. 3:196
52. Don't steal from orphans (or Allah will burn you forever in hell). 4:10
53. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 4:14
54. For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:18
55. "We shall cast him into Fire, and that is ever easy for Allah." 4:30
56. For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 4:37
57. Hell is sufficient for their burning. 4:55
58. Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56
59. Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74
60. Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76
61. Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
62. If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
63. Believers who kill believers will face the awful doom of hell. 4:93
64. "Their habitation will be hell, an evil journey's end." 4:97
65. Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 4:115
66. Allah will lead them astray and they will go to hell. 4:119-121
67. Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137
68. For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138
69. Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 4:140
70. The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 4:145
71. You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151
72. For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1
73. God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169
74. If you don't do good works, Allah will punish you with a painful doom. 4:173
75. Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5
76. Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10
77. "The owners of the fire. That is the reward of evil-doers." 5:29
78. Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33
79. Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 5:36
80. Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 5:37
81. Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38
82. Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 5:41
83. Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45
84. Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
85. Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
86. Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
87. Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86
88. Allah will test believers to see if they are afraid. Those who fail a second test will suffer a a painful doom. 5:94
89. Those who deny the truth of Islam will be punished by Allah. 6:5
90. "See the nature of the consequence for the rejecters!" 6:11
91. Many generations have been destroyed by Allah. 6:6
92. Disbelievers will say when they see the Fire that they would have believed if they had known the truth. But they are all liars. 6:27-28
93. Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 6:49
94. Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70
95. When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93
96. Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 6:113
97. Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 6:125
98. Allah will send everyone the Fire, except those he chooses to deliver. 6:128
99. Let the idolaters kill their children. It is Allah's will. 6:137
100. The worst thing anyone can do is deny the revelations of Allah. Those who do so will be awared an evil doom. 6:157
101. How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 7:4-5
102. Allah banishes Iblis and promises to fill hell with those who are mislead by him. 7:18
103. Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 7:36 |
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html
It really is time for us to be honest about this. It is inappropriate to teach hate and command violence, even if it is a (faux) "man of god" doing the teaching. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| I like Mark Steel , anyone ever see the Mark Steel Lectures? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Because there are obsessive people in all religions, but without an earthly motive, they don't usually resort to blowing up civilians to please their God. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:43 am Post subject: |
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Ah, the power of a translator!!!!!!!!!
We are the puddy of the gods who are translators.....
DD |
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jkelly80
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Location: you boys like mexico?
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: |
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How about this:
The West has a history of exploitation and violence against most of the rest of the world. This is a large source of its wealth and power, and makes a great deal of its political rhetoric highly hypocritical.
AND
Islam, specifically the Islamism in the Middle East and Europe, creates brutal and anachronistic societies that produce murderous mindsets against all other societies and mindsets, not just Western "imperialist" ones. Islamists in Europe and the UK may use such language as "imperialism" to lend their own movements legitimacy, but at heart, many are just killers.
It is correct that Islamism is a threat, but it is not the apocalyptic one that some have made it out to be. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: ... |
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| OK, boob. It's time for honesty. What percentage of Muslims worldwide are violent? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| OK, boob. It's time for honesty. What percentage of Muslims worldwide are violent? |
The bigger question is what % are opposed to muslim on kuffar violence.
And huff, I think that in the 15th century your point would have been valid. No longer. But I'm as disgusted of biblical fundies as I am muslim fundies.
When I get on an airplane, however, I'm not looking for jesus freaks. Are you? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| And huff, I think that in the 15th century your point would have been valid. No longer. But I'm as disgusted of biblical fundies as I am muslim fundies. |
The 15th century? You're overlooking quite a bit of Christian sponsored genocide and violence there. Not to mention quite a bit of atheist sponsored death and destruction. When was the last time you protested your fellow atheists' atrocities?
Furthermore, if the cites of violence in the Koran prove that violence is an inherit aspect of the religion, how are the same cites from the Bible not an indication of the same thing? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| BJWD wrote: |
| And huff, I think that in the 15th century your point would have been valid. No longer. But I'm as disgusted of biblical fundies as I am muslim fundies. |
The 15th century? You're overlooking quite a bit of Christian sponsored genocide and violence there. Not to mention quite a bit of atheist sponsored death and destruction. When was the last time you protested your fellow atheists' atrocities?
Furthermore, if the cites of violence in the Koran prove that violence is an inherit aspect of the religion, how are the same cites from the Bible not an indication of the same thing? |
Firstly, I'm a libertarian. Which places me about as far away on the political spectrum from the atheist Nazi's/commies. I am actually more anti-communist than I am anti-islam, and I really, really, really fucking hate islam. I suppose I could pull a bigbird and make 10 posts about all the things I'm against, but I won't. I very naively believe in non-violence and am always anti-war. I love puppies too.
I think the OT is a piece of $hit. The NT slightly better. The koran is disgusting. They are all unacceptable to any thinking person with an ethical compass. The problem is that islam is designed to be an extreme religion. mo' actually wanted his subjects to pray 100 times a day. He knew what he was doing. I think all religious people are intellectually stunted or just plain dumb. All of you. Every single last one. And if you substitute god for state or god for race or god for 'the people' you are a fool as well. We pathetic little humans always look for the most simple of all answers.
I have no home team. I oppose the violence of everybody. That is why I actually protested the war in Iraq. I'm fucking ideologically consistent. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Firstly, I'm a libertarian. Which places me about as far away on the political spectrum from the atheist Nazi's/commies. |
According to you, all Muslims are of the same cloth. Why doesn't that apply to atheists? (I realize this repeats the same theme that tony_balony is pushing, but it's merely a coincidence).
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| I think all religious people are intellectually stunted or just plain dumb. All of you. Every single last one. |
"you"??? Who is that addressed to? I've never expressed any religious beliefs on this forum. Although, I do find it quite ignorant to label all religious people as idiots. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Ignorant or not, our tendency towards a fear of the dark and imaginary friends is the consequence of a mind not yet fully evolved. It is a problem with our hardwiring.
Huff. Write "god". |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Ignorant or not, our tendency towards a fear of the dark and imaginary friends is the consequence of a mind not yet fully evolved. It is a problem with our hardwiring. |
Based upon what evidence?
Anecdotally, many intelligent people have believed in G-d.
Statistically, the results indicate mixed results, although their appears to be a slight tendency towards atheism increasing with intelligence.
http://malaysia.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070704124516AAdZjcc
Scientifically, religion, or at least the religions that remain with us today, is a quite recent development in the history of man. Indicating that it is in fact an evolved concept.
You obviously have some deep, traumatic experience(s) with religion that keeps you from being objective. It's unfortunate that you are unable to discuss the issue with a reasonable mind. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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What nonsense.
Firstly, I've had no traumatic experiences with anything in my life, less maybe entering into financial relationships with Koreans. My life has been rather perfect. Thanks for asking.
The three monos and Hinduism/Buddhism have indeed only been with us for a short time. I hope you aren't suggesting that people for them were looking at the stars and coming up with rational explanations for the cosmos.. That would be breathtakingly dumb.
To really get into this, though, you will have to examine what impact the European concept of a 'state' had on changing how religion impacts the world. |
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