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Pension Question: Small Schools Exempt? / How to Decide ...

 
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paquebot



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Location: Northern Gyeonggi-do

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Pension Question: Small Schools Exempt? / How to Decide ... Reply with quote

I'm looking at a job offer in northern Seoul right now and, while it sounds like a really great work environment, one problem that has come up involves pension. The head foreign teacher that I've talked to says that their hagwon is so small (3 foreign teachers, 5 Korean teachers) that they don't need to pay into national pension. This sounds sketchy to me, but I'm curious if there is any truth to the statement.


On a slightly unrelated note, there are three job offers that I really can't decide between. Seongbuk-gu, Bupyeong, and Bucheon. Each has its good and bad points, so it's really hard to pick one school over the others. Has anyone else been in this situation? If so, how did you eventually settle on one school/contract over the others?
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Jellypah



Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: ROK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pension is the law. No workplace is exempt.
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garykasparov



Joined: 27 May 2007

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.nps.or.kr/

(1) Click on National Pension Scheme and foreigners

NATIONAL PENSION SCHEME AND FOREIGNERS

At the time of the introduction of the Scheme, foreigners were not mandatorily covered. Only foreigners working in a workplace covered under the Scheme could be covered as an Workplace based Insured Person by submitting an application.

Foreigners working at the workplace with 5 or more full-time employees were included in the mandatory coverage in August 1995 and those working at the workplace with less than 5 employees including self-employed foreigners were also included in the mandatory coverage in April 1999. Accordingly, foreigners aged from 18 to less than 60 who reside in Korea must be, in principle, covered under the Scheme. But foreigners falling under any of the following items are excluded from the coverage.

- Those whose country does not mandatorily cover Korean citizens under its pension scheme.

=> Under this rule, only the nationals from 18 countries※ do not have to enroll and pay the NPS contributions.

※ the Republic of South Africa, Nepal, Russia, Maldives, Nyanmar, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Saudi Arabia, Armenia, Ukraine, Ethiopia, Iran, Egypt, Tonga, Pakistan, Fiji, Cambodea, Singapore

- Foreigners who are not registered under the Immigration Act, or to whom the forced deportation order has been issued under the same Act, or who are staying in Korea without being permitted to extend their
term of stay.

- Among the registered foreigners under Immigration Act, those whose stay status falls under any of the followings; culture & art, studying abroad, industrial training, general training, religion, visiting & living
together and others.

- People excluded from the mandatory coverage of National Pension Scheme, by the social security agreement.
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paquebot



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Location: Northern Gyeonggi-do

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick responses, JellyPah and garykasparov. I was under the impression that pension was mandatory for all schools but figured I would check here just in case there was a special clause for schools with fewer teachers. Guess this is another contract to walk away from ...

Not sure if it's something to do with my computer's settings, but when I tried to follow the link it brought up a page that says

Quote:
<%@ page contentType="text/html; charset=euc-kr"%>
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ttompatz



Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Pension Question: Small Schools Exempt? / How to Decide Reply with quote

paquebot wrote:
I'm looking at a job offer in northern Seoul right now and, while it sounds like a really great work environment, one problem that has come up involves pension. The head foreign teacher that I've talked to says that their hagwon is so small (3 foreign teachers, 5 Korean teachers) that they don't need to pay into national pension. This sounds sketchy to me, but I'm curious if there is any truth to the statement.


On a slightly unrelated note, there are three job offers that I really can't decide between. Seongbuk-gu, Bupyeong, and Bucheon. Each has its good and bad points, so it's really hard to pick one school over the others. Has anyone else been in this situation? If so, how did you eventually settle on one school/contract over the others?


They are not being honest with you. They are required by law to enroll you.
http://www.nps.or.kr/jsppage/english/scheme/scheme_04.jsp
(like many korean webpages - they only work with internet explorer 6).

Foreigners working at the workplace with 5 or more full-time employees were included in the mandatory coverage in August 1995 and those working at the workplace with less than 5 employees including self-employed foreigners were also included in the mandatory coverage in April 1999. Accordingly, foreigners aged from 18 to less than 60 who reside in Korea must be, in principle, covered under the Scheme.

Time to give it a pass.

In regard to your second question..... I can only say DUE DILLIGENCE. The vast majority of Hakwons will NOT pass the test and then it is time to move to the next one. 80%of them are CRAP so you can expect to walk away from 8/10.

Do NOT be in a rush to sign anything. There is NO rush or urgency in spite of what your recruiter may tell you.

Take your time. The job (or more likely a better one) will still be there next week and probably next month too.

There are 30,000 openings in Korea each year and only about 25,000 applicants to fill those jobs each year.

1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...

The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.

No foreign staff references to talk to = walk away now.
Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.

The hard questions to ask AND get acceptable answers to ARE:

-What are the hours? (start time / stop time / breaks).

-How many classes per day, week, month? NOT hour many hours per month. 30 classroom hours can mean anything from 1350 -1800 minutes per week standing in front of the class. The difference can be up to 7.5 HOURS in front of the class EACH WEEK.

-Do they ALWAYS pay on time? (no=red flag 1)

-Do they pay at the end of your month or do they have a hold back period (5-10 days after your month end) to prevent runners? (no=red flag 2)

-Do they really pay overtime or avoid it with creative book keeping? (no=red flag 3)

-Do you get credit for classes on the national holidays or do you get the day off but still have to work your 120 hours before you get overtime? (no=red flag 4)

-Do they have national medical (with the little booklet)? (no=red flag 5)

-Do they pay into pension? (no=red flag 6) These two are legal requirements (not optional) and are usually NOT complied with (to your detriment).

-What about the holidays? 10 or more WORKING days? (legal requirement here) (no=red flag 7)

-When and how do you get your holidays?

-What extra stuff do you really have to do - mentioned or not in the contract.

-Then consider the quality of life issues - things that are important to you that aren't mentioned here (housing, furnishings, THE BATHROOM, access to recreational facilities, shopping, banking).
Do they take additional deposits in addition to the delay in payday? (yes=red flag Cool

I would also like to mention for I would also like to mention for comparison:

My co-worker who is a green as grass, fresh of the boat newbie gets a base salary of 2.1 mil per month for 22 classes of 40 minutes each.
She gets 20k won for each 40 minute class over 22 per week and works from 8:30-4:30 each day. She usually averages 26 classes per week and her salary works out to about 2.5 mil per month.

She also gets (as required by law and ignored by most hakwons) NHIC medical, pension, severance, non-shared housing, airfare and 4 weeks annual PAID vacation.

I hope that has been of some help.
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paquebot



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Location: Northern Gyeonggi-do

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Pension Question: Small Schools Exempt? / How to Decide Reply with quote

ttompatz wrote:

Time to give it a pass.

In regard to your second question..... I can only say DUE DILLIGENCE. The vast majority of Hakwons will NOT pass the test and then it is time to move to the next one. 80%of them are CRAP so you can expect to walk away from 8/10.

Do NOT be in a rush to sign anything. There is NO rush or urgency in spite of what your recruiter may tell you.

Take your time. The job (or more likely a better one) will still be there next week and probably next month too.

There are 30,000 openings in Korea each year and only about 25,000 applicants to fill those jobs each year.

1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...

The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.

I would also like to mention for comparison:

My co-worker who is a green as grass, fresh of the boat newbie gets a base salary of 2.1 mil per month for 22 classes of 40 minutes each.
She gets 20k won for each 40 minute class over 22 per week and works from 8:30-4:30 each day. She usually averages 26 classes per week and her salary works out to about 2.5 mil per month.

She also gets (as required by law and ignored by most hakwons) NHIC medical, pension, severance, non-shared housing, airfare and 4 weeks annual PAID vacation.

I hope that has been of some help.


Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions, ttompatz. I came across your list of questions to ask foreign teachers in the 'post your contract here' thread and have made a point to ask foreign teachers as many of those questions as possible via email. It definitely helps.

Discounting the school that won't pay pension, that leaves me with two decent offers out of twenty interviews. I have experience tutoring Koreans in the U.S. but haven't found many decent jobs that don't require a Master's Degree, TESOL degree, and/or past EFL experience. It seems like the vast majority of jobs out there are for hagwons that offer the minimum 10 days of vacation (or try to pass off a couple days of sick time as 'vacation'). I know it's a good policy to wait until the right job comes around, but I do have some mild time constraints on how long I can wait.

Fortunately, right after reading about the position your friend managed to find I've found a couple of similar openings myself. Funny how that worked out. I really appreciate all the time and work you put into helping other members of the forum. Your advice is reassuring for someone who is doing this for the first time.
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luv2dance79



Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Location: Suwon

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: Pension Question: Small Schools Exempt? / How to Decide Reply with quote

paquebot wrote:
I'm looking at a job offer in northern Seoul right now and, while it sounds like a really great work environment, one problem that has come up involves pension. The head foreign teacher that I've talked to says that their hagwon is so small (3 foreign teachers, 5 Korean teachers) that they don't need to pay into national pension. This sounds sketchy to me, but I'm curious if there is any truth to the statement.


On a slightly unrelated note, there are three job offers that I really can't decide between. Seongbuk-gu, Bupyeong, and Bucheon. Each has its good and bad points, so it's really hard to pick one school over the others. Has anyone else been in this situation? If so, how did you eventually settle on one school/contract over the others?




I went through the same situation with my hagwon and while he is scamming you...there's nothing that can be done about it. I'm assuming he has his hagwon registered as a private business to avoid paying into pension. I've been round and round with my school about the issue. I've contacted the regional Pension office as well as the main office in Jamsil. Their is nothing they can or will do about it because of his registration status.

Me and the teachers I work with are classified as Individually Insured employees. According to the NPS website, Individually insured means you are self-employed. Well, that is not the case because you work for them...but they do this to get out of paying pension. If they were classified as a workplace than they would be required to pay.

My advice to you is don't sign with this school...and definitely make sure that the pension plan is written into your contract...or else you will get screwed, just as I am.
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