Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Dome Vans]

Hoping you can help me out with this. My text book for middle school is awful. I am English and want to try and teach as much of the English English as possible. In the text book the title was

I wish there were no pollution.

To my ears, that should be 'was no pollution' because it is an un countable noun, but looking thru my Swan book there is a special case because I comes after 'I wish' but mainly in American English. Any help with this one?

Also my pronunciation of soccer is wrong. Sorry, 'SACCER'[/b]

[HyperPatriot]

I dont know.

I disagree about pollution being uncountable -- pollution is plural. What would be the single form of pollution?

What is 1 unit of pollution? Pollution is ALWAYS plural. Because pollution only seems to matter once its plural. One atom of sulpher is not pollution. One bag of trash is not pollution. Pollution is inherently a bunch of things within an environment when its being discussed. Its never a single unit. There can be 1 fish -- but there can't be 1 pollution. There can be 1 SOURCE of pollution. But not 1 pollution. The pollution itself is plural.

These items, when talked about in real life, are ALWAYS plural.

Pollution is almost always plural when we talk about it.



Its not like fish where you have 1 fish or where you have 12 fish.


Thats my take, anyway.

[xtchr]

I'm going to hazard a guess and say it's because it's the subjunctive form, and not really to do with singular/plural.

But really I have no clue.


What about when you pronounce 'water'? Some Koreans don't understand at all until I give up and proceed to pronounce it with an excruciatingly bad 'American' accent.

[tomato]

xtcher is right.
were is the subjunctive mood of the verb to be.
The indicative mood is "There is no pollution."

[faster]

[ajuma]

[beachbumNC]

"I wish there was no pollution" is correct. Doesn't matter where you're from.

[jay-shi]

[yingwenlaoshi]

[CentralCali]

[bacasper]

[faster]

[HyperPatriot]

"Priceless."


Heh heh! The IRONY was not missed on me when i wrote that (and i wouldn't have used the "is" in the first place if i thought otherwise) but i am just taking a risk on a theory:


When i said "Pollution is ALWAYS plural" it was deliberately to contrast the rule with the IDEA of what pollution is, in order to explain why something can be said one way, but, say, other single words cannot take the "were".

So, CENTRALCALI understood correctly.

And most of you are missing the point i was trying to make, which is -- Cultural, not linguistic (hence the "i dunno", instead of "refer to page blah blah of the book Grammar Gods blah blah".) I'm a political science major, not a linguist, so i dont have the tools to convey my message to you best.


Consider the statement, which is perfectly fine in the United States:

"I wish there were no pollution." (Sounds good when thought of as a cause to remove the PLURAL yet sub-dividable form.)

"I wish there weren't any pollutions."
(Sounds bad -- a preferable choice would be, "I wish there weren't any pollutants.")


And compare this statement with the following:

"I wish there were no rock." (this sounds OK when thought of as part of a sub dividable whole, "I wish there weren't any rock beneath us").

"I wish there were no rocks." (when you are talking about specific rocks -- "rocks" here being similar to "pollutants" as a preferable choice).


Again, i don't have the linguistic tools necessary to break down my thoughts and feelings on this issue, so the "I dunno" has to still stand -- and that's a fair statement, by the way, YingWen -- but i still feel that there is something more going on here, something cultural and dialectical, as CentralCali put it, than what is being given credit by those researching whatever the Grammar Gods who control our language from afar have to say about it.



As for the laziness of language, i think we can ALL agree:


The British have been completely mangling the American Language ever since the 1600s!!


[HyperPatriot]

[yingwenlaoshi]

Well then have a glass of pollution on me.