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Are you a feminist?
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I'm a woman and I'm a feminist.
I'm a woman and I have reservations about the word with regard to myself.
17%
 17%  [ 4 ]
I'm a man and I'm a feminist.
34%
 34%  [ 8 ]
I'm a man and I'd never use that word about myself.
47%
 47%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 23

Author Message
The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:29 am    Post subject: Are you a feminist? Reply with quote

I've seen one or two on this thread claim they'd rather not "self-identify" as a feminist, and it's curious to me and I'd like to know why. Others are happy and proud to do, with pride and volume, and quite able to explain why.

I'm a man, and I call myself a feminist. And I know there are some women who will be skeptical or even say it's patently impossible, and other will think so even if they will not say so. Because I'm a man, you see. Well, I don't agree. I think some men are more feminist than some women.

Don't get all het up over what the word means, as it's one of those abstract nouns that are likelyto mean a myriad of things to a slew of different people. Are you willing to use it as a descriptive adjective to talk about yourself? Why, or why not?
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JMO



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might but I'm not sure what it means as applied to men. That respect women and see them as equals? If so I'm in.

Last edited by JMO on Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pro-feminist ... because I don't like the alternatives
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VanIslander wrote:
I'm pro-feminist...because I don't like the alternatives...


Which are...?
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobster, you've f***ed up your poll.

If feminist means I should have the same oppurtunities and be treated with the same respect as someone with a willy, then I am one.

If it means that I eat poor little men for tea and am a real ball-breaker, then I can be one too. HAHA

And I love to say I am a FEMINIST because it annoys the crap out of the sort of people who deserve to have the crap annoyed out of them. Cool

It is the new F word, and seemingly even more offensive than the one it replaced these days. People go all silly over it. Good.
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting poll options. I guess the men are really the true feminists at Dave's?

(P.S. - I didn't vote.)
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peppermint



Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, in that I like being told I'm good at something and hate the qualifier "for a girl" being attached to praise.

I don't like a lot of the baggage that's sprung up around the word, "feminist", though. I like men, have loved a few, am not afraid of personal grooming, and have never wanted to burn my bras. I don't snarl at men who open doors for me, I thank them and then hold the next one open for them.

Feminists are often painted as raving man hating, hairy legged vagina warriors, these days, and until that changes, I think a lot of women like myself will be uncomfortable with the term
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Bird wrote:
Bobster, you've f***ed up your poll.

Guilty. Somehow whenever I try to do this, whatever i choose as the first option turns out to be a header. Dunno why. Well, the point is to talk about it, not so much about voting.

Quote:
If it means that I eat poor little men for tea and am a real ball-breaker, then I can be one too. HAHA

Just to be provocative, why is it okay for a woman to express this kind of hostility toward the other gender, but if a man does so, well, he's some kind of monster? (Which would be MY gut feeling at reading such a thing written by a man.)

peppermint :
Quote:
Feminists are often painted as raving man hating, hairy legged vagina warriors, these days, and until that changes, I think a lot of women like myself will be uncomfortable with the term

Yes, but ARE you a feminist? Would you use the label to describe yourself? You've given some reasons not to, but I'm wondering if there are any reasons you can come up with that would make you say : "Yes, I'm a feminist."

Do you think it is fair to yourself to let others dictate how you see yourself, depending on how you are "painted."? Who is doing the painting, anyway- other women, men, or yourself?

Not condemning anyone for their choices, and apologize once more the the goof with the poll options ... if you don't wanna talk about it, you don't have to. Sharing is sometimes illuminating, though.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peppermint wrote:
Feminists are often painted as...


What is the last feminist-authored book you have read?

What is the last feminist seminar or conference you attended? And what did you see and hear there?

________

And Van Islander: what are my alternatives to being "pro-feminist?" Are you going to say something that is going to sound an awful lot like "If you are not with us then you are for the terrorists..."? Wink
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MollyBloom



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an old-school feminist that believes women should get the same opportunities as men, etc. I am not like some of the ones today who are all extremist and hate men. Making women better than men is not equal either. I just don't like extremists in general.
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Bramble



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peppermint wrote:
yes, in that I like being told I'm good at something and hate the qualifier "for a girl" being attached to praise.

I don't like a lot of the baggage that's sprung up around the word, "feminist", though. I like men, have loved a few, am not afraid of personal grooming, and have never wanted to burn my bras. I don't snarl at men who open doors for me, I thank them and then hold the next one open for them.

Feminists are often painted as raving man hating, hairy legged vagina warriors, these days, and until that changes, I think a lot of women like myself will be uncomfortable with the term


I don't like using the word nowadays either, but for different reasons ... to me it just seems unclear because it's used to mean far too many different things. And as Gopher pointed out, it kind of implies that a person has kept herself up to date on the recent work of various feminist authors and speakers, which I haven't.

To be clear, I have listened to feminist thinkers in the past and I agree with many of their ideas ... but the word doesn't fully encompass my philosophy of life. All things considered, I feel that it would be misleading to assume the label.
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peppermint



Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:

Yes, but ARE you a feminist? Would you use the label to describe yourself? You've given some reasons not to, but I'm wondering if there are any reasons you can come up with that would make you say : "Yes, I'm a feminist."

Do you think it is fair to yourself to let others dictate how you see yourself, depending on how you are "painted."? Who is doing the painting, anyway- other women, men, or yourself?


Bob, the first word in my post, my answer to the question posed by the thread is "yes". Of course I'm a feminist, and I think most women today are, whether they admit it or not. Just about every western woman I know, my age or younger supports the basic ideas of feminism- equal rights, equal opportunties, reproductive choice, child care..

The whole question of why young women are hesitant about the term was a pretty hot topic in feminist circles a few months ago, thanks to a book called Full Frontal Feminism. The author of that book claimed

Quote:
I think younger women have bought into the stereotypes because the stereotypes are so intense and pervasive. I think most younger women have feminist values; that's where the whole "I'm not a feminist, but ..." syndrome comes in. The language and the word [scares women away from using it]; that's how effective anti-feminist rhetoric has become.


http://www.alternet.org/story/50843/?page=1

I don't necessarily agree, but I thought I'd put it out there.
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Tokki1



Joined: 14 May 2007
Location: The gap between the Korean superiority and inferiority complex

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No.
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The Bobster



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

peppermint wrote:
Bob, the first word in my post, my answer to the question posed by the thread is "yes". Of course I'm a feminist, and I think most women today are, whether they admit it or not.

Fair enough, and sorry if I seemed to badger you.

Quote:
I don't necessarily agree, but I thought I'd put it out there,
Not necessary to agree, but we DO need to treat each other with respect. The link you gave shows you are willing to discuss and help others understand, and that equals nothing else than respect. That's what we're here for, is what I figure.

From your quotw:
Quote:
that's how effective anti-feminist rhetoric has become.

I've been thinking lately : WHO is producing the "anti-feminist rhetoric?" Religious groups? "Men's rights" group? Or is it perhaps women themselves?

I'm reminded of a paragraph in (I think) Rolling Stone magazine almost 3 decades ago talking about the popularity of an all-girl group called The Go-Gos, to the effect that : "Gosh, being a woman is hard ... but, gee, being a girl is fun!"

Starting to think that feminism asks women to be women, even though it's more fun to be a girl. It's a natural thing for people to want to do the easy thing, especially if it's more fun. Heck, who wouldn't?
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MollyBloom



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Location: James Joyce's pants

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had conversations with people who have expressed amazement that modern feminists have not put up too much of a stink with Islam extremists because of the way most women are treated. I don't know too much about the topic, so I don't feel right to comment. But, it's something to think about.
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