Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Pusanpoe]

A new proposal being circulated

Most of the salary money is swallowedd by midddle age to older Korean professors. Women professors and native speakers are underpaid and tuition has become a burden for many students. The proposal being circulated at some universities is as follows:

1) Cut older professors 4 to 4.6 million won salaries. Most essentially do nothing quantitatively or qualitatively. Or retire most of them.

2) Raise salaries of discriminated female professors who are doing the same as their male counterparts but less paid.

3) Raise the salaries of qualified native speakers who are generally underpaid 1.8mm to 2.1mm vs 4 million do nothing of some mid age to oldies

4) Raise low salaries of underpaid qualified young Korean lecturers, some of whom have been swamped with work while many of the oldies play the violin as unis sink.

[Arthur Fonzerelli]

I say if thr instructor is qualified (master's, experience) pay him more... but people fresh off the plane with BA's shouldn't complain...

[VanIslander]

A proposal to introduce wage equity and wage parity? Okay, that sounds fair, to my Western ears. Only I'm left wondering: Who wrote and circulated the proposal? It smells of expat self-interest and, if so, it will stink up the Korean noses of powers that be.

A proposal going nowhere.

[Pusanpoe]

The parents and students want the native speaker instructors-especially the qualified ones badly. One college said it wanted more "regular" expats and to send back the bilinguals (Kyopoes, Korean profs..I do not agree with such an attitude per se) The focus on the school system has in part prevented sufficient focus on the poor teaching at the college level. Getting out of Korea to escape the rigid Korean education system is more popular than it has ever been (re immigration trade fairs abound)and also reflects on the university system.

A recent Korean college magazine (Granite) says that uni students have formed an organization to fight against boring lectures. The government is so fed up with most of these older Korean professors that they want to strip tenure from them-not saying that may be 100% positive. If the Native speaker instructors had any guts they could initiate a "revolt" with probably the silent applause of the Government, students, some female and young lecturers-and probably the parents. They actually might eventually get at least some kind of salary and benefit improvement.

Certain university instructors may not care about getting a competitive salary based on their backgrounds. I believe that most native speaker instructors are better qualified than those in such programmes as EPIK or hagwons who pay the same. Teaching hours at universities vs public schools are largely the same (though not in all cases) and many schools employ teachers with fairly limited experience as far as expats go.

However, I agree that those who are less qualified among the expats may feel their situation is favorable enough not to rock the boat. But this boat is sinking anyway as mergers move through and as the government gets very nervous indeed about college students competitiveness especially in English skills. If you think those oldies are going to make a big effort to reduce the number of native instructors because they are critical of them-Think again. They are paper tigers forced to run around and cry union these days . They are on their last legs and are largely redundant at both the research and classroom teaching level. Of course there are some excellent older ones, well travelled and student centred but a minority-a group of whom I can tell you have little pity in regards to the so many non-performers. Some of them are at the chairman level but can do little as their collegues have tenure and are politically entrenched.

Students are generally crying to get more qualified foreigners in and the cultural prejudice that some Korean professors have of foreigners won't wash with Korean students as they are more globlized than ever before and with values that are increasingly the same as those of their their native speaker instructors than most of the older "top down" Korean professors.

The expanding programmes to promote HUBS, English only village and trade areas mean that the game is over of hiring the well qualified at universities and paying them hagwon wages. It is just a matter of time. But a little bit of push by native speakers might speed up the process. To those few expats who have managed to ingratiate yourselves and find those few decenting paying positions-good for you. But don't sell out the majority of your fellow university instructors.

[weatherman]

I know I am underpaid in the current Korean labor market for the work I do at my university. I wouldn't want to go changing the system so fast. I know a lot of profs don't do much, but I see some really work hard. You are messing with an intrenched respect for educational achievement and the rewards that go along with it. Giving time Korean women professors will make better in-roads, and for the foreign staff working contract by contract, they need to respect that we are a part of the system and need to reward us a bit better if they want us to maintain respect for the school. For as the reality is now, which is more like keeping respect for yourself because the school doesn't really give a damn about you.

[The Lemon]

[Anda]

There was talk last year of bringing so many foreigners into Korea to teach different majors besides English. High level wages were talked about plus intended numbers. There was also talk that public schools would be able to hire two or four hundred foreign English teachers outside of the EPIK program. Both issues were talked about i the papers here but I've heard nothing since on either plan. Changes have been happening towards forcing out unpopular and low ability Korean teachers and professors from some schools and universities here for a while now but so far only a small scale.

Personally I tend to think our numbers will be reduced in general if the Korean economy continues to slide downhill not the other way around. Some will remember that during the IMF thing here that many third world workers were forced to leave so that Koreans could take their jobs. Korea is for Koreans and this isn't going to change fast.

[Pusanpoe]

50% of the economy (as per the stock markets) are owned by foreigners. The financial and economic ministries are providing many incentives to attract foreign investment. Against this is a very conservative and visionless educational system that is in the process of murdering itself as the wealthy and even more middle class vote with their feet. I can not believe how these two departmwents seem to be acting so much opposite each other and this is being allowed by the Blue House.

Roh is more quickly getting the message that investment counts and education is a key part of that . Possibly a way to get around the entrenched negative interests is to create a whole new university in one of those zones with English Only and with equitable wages. Time for a head to head competitive system beyond limited partnerships and believe Cheju-do is thinking of doing it.

I can hear the unions kicking and screaming about that one as other economies say bye bye to Korea. I can also see them whipping up the nationalism of yesteryears which I think will be their last swan song before the education system begins a significant revitalization. It's do or die and I believe Koreans collectively are not going to respond- by kicking out 400 (less than 1-2% of the entire tertiary education instructors) even as the economy sinks partly due to lack of international competitiveness with even China

Frankly, in one way and only one way, I would welcome foreigners being fired as in a rather "macabre" way, it would completely put Korea in the international education doghouse and bring so much scorn that it might act on the medium term as a major catalyst to reform. The almost near complete failure of EPIK while Japan's JET programme is 25 times in multiple to Korea's is further indicating to the international community that Korea cannot sufficiently internationalize properly where it counts-in the education system.(not on the soccer field by the way) AND SAY GOOD-BYE TO THE HUB which the European Community is saying is very difficult to have in light partly of these union problems-which extend down to the education system it would seem.

However you look at it, Roh has a very tough row to hoe and it is my firm belief that things will have to get much worse in terms of parent protest before there is sufficient momentum to blow away the many entrenched has beens or has been ideas that are stuffing up korea from moving forward in its goal to 20,000$ GNP per capita.