Korean Job Discussion Forums

peppermint · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:28 pm Post subject: Undressed on the subway???

So, I and a group of friends were sitting on the subway yesterday, not really bothering anyone, when I noticed an older Korean woman giving me the waygook stare. I smiled at her, hoping she'd get the point:"Yes, I am a foreigner. Yes, I see you. Please stop staring at me and have a nice day."

A few minutes later the same woman stood up in front of me, frowning, grumbling something in Korean (I speak some Korean but am far from fluent) and gesturing to cover myself up. Shocked

I was wearing a longish pair of shorts, and a strappy tank top. No obvious cleavage was showing and I wasn't flaunting anything. A kyopo friend sitting next to me told me that she was demanding that I put on some clothes.

If she hand just made a disapproving cluck as she walked past, I'd kind of understand. But she walked past similarly dressed Korean girls and tried to lecture me, even though I made it clear that I didn't understand. . .

Has this happened to anyone else, and can anyone explain why. .

The Lemon · Joined: 11 Jan 2003

Tiger Beer · Joined: 07 Feb 2003

posco's trumpet · Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Location: Beneath the Underdog

VanIslander · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:04 pm Post subject:

I've noticed the same from a man's perspective. On hot days I go shopping in shorts and I get more stares than usual, and even by shopkeepers who usually don't pay much attention to me anymore here in this smaller city (when I wear dress clothes I'm almost invisible, despite my height and bright ties).

Plus I think I recognize similar attention toward other foreigners. I asked my Korean co-workers about it and they say that it's traditional to wear long pants even to the beach. That explains the older stares, by older people that make up the lemon's two percent prediction. It doesn't explain the double standard, given Korean youth are sometimes wearing surprisingly little around here.

I think Peppermint is right about perceptions of foreigners: What we wear signifies what sort of foreigner we are. The same thing can signify different things in different contexts.

For example: A friend of mine in Canada is the son of a First Nations chief, and comes from a respected family of lawyers, doctors and politicians. On one of the rare occasions that my friend drinks, he was walking home after a wedding party when a non-native guy shouted obscenities at my friend for doing exactly the same thing that other late-night streetgoers were doing.

You can call it prejudice if you want to, and it's certainly a form of ignorance, but it's born of a combination of one's experiences and one's received generalizations. Many non-natives are raised in Canada with the idea that indians are drunks, and their experiences often remind them of the generalization, even if only a third of the natives they meet fit the type. There are many heavy drinkers among the natives in Canada, just as there are many loose and unchaste semi-clad foreigners in Korea (including Russian women and American men). Even if 70 percent of the time there's no objectional conduct, that leaves 30 percent of times to reinforce the generalization.

I don't resent Koreans for thinking I am of the "Ugly American" stereotype. Nor do I resent non-natives who insult my friend when he drinks. It's a sad truth of human rule-based thinking. One can only struggle to undermine the overgeneralization by being an example to the contrary and reminding others of the way many exceptions.

The Lemon · Joined: 11 Jan 2003

William Beckerson · Guest

Darrr... Me no understand Lemon man...

Anyway, the ajumma was a busybody biyatch.

On the other hand, if you're in a nation that thinks "Strappy Tank Top = Dirty Russian Hooker" should you be offended when something thinks you're a dirty ho?

Y'know. Local standards and all that.

Gollum · Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Location: Japan

Tancred · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 5:53 pm Post subject:

peppermint · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 7:04 pm Post subject:

chi-chi · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Hi Peppermint,
It's really annoying, I agree. It's one of my pet peeves about being here.
I'm suprised that your friend didn't suggest that you move to another car on the subway to avoid that woman making a scene with you.
It can get worse-when I first got here, I was grabbed on some occasions and followed on others-sometimes in front of my b/f-but this was in a small town where NOBODY dressed like that (yes, Seoul is downright liberal compared to the rest of the country.)
I just try to grit my teeth and when something like that happens, remind myself that this is more like the Middle East than the rest of Asia.
Then I take my money and go do something nice for myself. Laughing

kylehawkins2000 · Joined: 08 Apr 2003

Other Koreans get the same treatment.

My ex-girlfriend had a very curvy figure for a Korean and had spent many years in much more liberal-minded areas in Europe. She liked to dress sexy and show off her assets.

Everyday she would get bad things said to her. She was not promiscuous but people here tend to really judge a book by it's cover sometimes. She was asked to cover up several times, even by other women her own age.
It really bothered her.

Anyways, my motto is don't sweat it. Live like ya wanna live. What others think is not so important. Ignorance is rampant. I don't think the human body is anything to be ashamed of.

HardyandTiny · Joined: 03 Jun 2003

same old thing
half the women between 19 and 30 are walking around in their underwear and someone is bothering YOU about your strappy top.

you know, "korean lady very conservative, she never show shoulder in dress, but mini-skirt different, it not mean want sex."

canuckistan · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2003 9:22 pm Post subject:

Korean women aren't supposed to bare their shoulders. Considered immodest. Although that old-fashioned rule has largely gone out the window in Seoul, I guess The Ministry of Virtue and Vice figured that should extend to you. Wouldn't it be fun to zap said ajumma over for an afternoon at say, Venice Beach, California?! She'd surely have a coronary Shocked

I still meet plenty of Korean girls who don't show their shoulders in public though.

ratslash · Joined: 08 May 2003

i was sat on the subway on monday. i'm six feet tall so when the subway isn't crowded i stretch my legs right out and get comfy. i tuck them in if anyone walks by or if it crowded of course. anyway, monday night, quite late, line 6 towards the start at bonghwasan. it was empty. anyway, this elderly korean guy (about 55-60) starts ranting at me, gesturing towards my legs, swearing, going off his head! i can't explain how it made me feel. angry? confused? baffled i suppose that someone actually cares that i'm stretching out my legs.

i know i shouldn't let it get to me, but this guy did. if he had just smiled, gestured towards my legs, i may have considered tucking them in a little bit. but, instead, i stretched them out further. he started going off his head even more. i stood up to show him how tall i was. bad move coz he thought i was being aggressive and starts shouting in my face. he got off at the next stop still ranting. he gestured for me to get off the train, i presume so he could carry his ranting or maybe to whup my butt.

it made me so angry and disappointed. this is the first confrontation i have had in korea in 8 months and it was over such a little, pathetic thing as getting comfy on the subway.

i know he was quite old, but the ignorance and rudeness of some korean people astounds me, and sometimes, especially in this situation, age is not an excuse. it wasn't like talking loudly, wearing skimpy clothes or wearing a t-shirt wrote in hangul saying 'i hate korea'. i was just happily sat there reading my book and i get abused and swore at! when this happens i wish i did have the above t-shirt!

nice. really got my week off to a fantastic start!