Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Gamecock]

This is a rant about public school whiners on this board! As there was a huge jump in public school jobs this year, this board has recently been flooded with complaints by public school teachers. Before I begin, let me state that I understand every school is a bit different and your experience may be marred by a particularly evil co-teacher...

BUT, as I survey the nearly daily complaints about public schools, I have to wonder how many of these moaners are first year teachers in Korea , and how many of them have actually taught in a hogwan. The common "critiques" go like this: I only have to teach 22 or so classes a week (maybe less) and I'm so bored! On top of that, when I don't have any classes, they still want me to come to work and do NOTHING, because they are paying me for that time! (Get a hobby, read a good book, write a book, take a class on-line, give us a break).

I have to teach a summer camp (which I agreed to when i took the job)! If I don't get paid OT for working my normal working schedule I refer to it as an "unpaid" camp!

The other teachers don't respect me! (Well, have you earned their respect by being professional? As well, you probably don't have a degree in education and probably aren't a certified teacher, yet are making more than a starting certified Korean teacher who has to be at the school much longer hours and on every other Saturday.)

Then there are the contradictory complaints: My co-workers never invite me to their extra-cirricular functions/I always HAVE to go to extra cirricular functions with co-workers. My co-teacher controls the class/my coteacher does nothing. Geesh!

One of my favs is: I don't have the freedom to teach the way I believe is effective. Well, you're in the wrong country. If you are given this freedom it's great. If not, well, you're hired to do a job the way the person in charge wants you to do it. That's what being an employee is all about. If you think its below you to teach according to a Korean methodology or system, then you're free to find a place that will let you do that. But your crusade to enlighten Korea as to the best education techniques is a ridiculous waste of time. (I'm not advocating being lazy or doing a poor job at all, but rather working according to the parameters your principal/supervisor has set for you). By the way, a MAJORITY of hogwans are not interested in your personal educational philosophy either.

Now there are some legitimate complaints. These are usually isolated incidents involving difficult principals and/or coteachers who demand something that is clearly outside the boundaries of your work agreement (OT after work hours, money issues, etc). A majority of these are solved by the person standing up to their coworker or principal and pointing at the truth written in their contract. Unlike a hogwan, a PS contract is straightforward and if you are in the right you will get what you have comng to you.

Then there is the "my co-worker is an a$$ complaint. This may be the most legitimate complaint...or maybe not. There are Koreans on power trips. I've seen this. However, I would suggest that we only see one side of the argument in these forums, and with the way many OP's carry on in the discussion, it is quite clear that it is perhaps they and not their Korean co-teacher who is an a$$. If your co-workers don't like you, it may not be a Korean conspiracy against you. Maybe you are just difficult to deal with in the workplace...just a thought.

I write this rant, because I personally know about a dozen people who have gone from the hogwan world to public school jobs. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM likes their job and says they would never go back to a hogwan. They don't claim its perfect by any means, but they are happy...many for them it is the first job satisfaction they've truly had since coming to Korea. It is only on this board that I have run into constant discontent by public school teachers. I'm sure there are good teachers in bad situations in the public schools...I just wonder what percentage of PS teachers are really unhappy? My guess is far less than is represented here.

Again, I wonder how many of these complainers have ever been through the hogwan system, or even how many of them have ever held down a job of any sort previously. There seems to be alot of fresh-faced kids just out of university here. I also wonder how many of them are dealing with culture shock (which should have hit seriously in the last month or two if you started in Korea in March) which causes people to become very irrational in their reactions to circumstances (i.e. making mountains out of molehills).

I want to say to anyone considering a pubic school job to take it. Be humble and considerate and friendly and open to learning about the culture, and your coworkers will like you. It is by far more secure than taking a hogwan job. You may get extra perks (like longer vacations than are in your contract, or being allowed to go home if you have no classes to teach) or you may not. Don't expect these perks. You're not entitled to them. If they happen count yourself lucky. You can probably get some overtime so you can make more money than the job ad says (as anything over 22 forty-five minute classes is usually OT at the elementary level...compared to the average hogwan where you will teach almost 1/3 more classes for no extra money). You also won't get screwed over on taxes, pension, or health insurance.

Perhaps I should just keep quiet about all this. With all the whining taking place there are sure to be people convinced the average hogwan job is just as good as a PS position. It may become harder for Public School's to fill their positions which simply means better job security for me...and possibly even better wages.

[root555]

I think the problem with public schools are that you are given the impression that you will be treated better than at a hogwan- when this isn't always the case. I know that most public schools are better- however I do have a few friends who have had terrible experiences at public schools- and one who actually WANTS to return to their old hogwan. Their complaints were these:

-forced to work on Saturdays (though not in contract) or for xtra hours without pay

-given a base salary of 2.3 with job offer- which was then reduced to 2.1 upon signing the contract

-given apartments with no running water, and/or washer that doesn't work and refusing to fix the problem (or pretending to 'fix' but not)

-charging teacher for holes in ceiling/leaks that in the apartment that were there before the teacher, the teacher brought this to the school's attention, and the school not only didn't fix it- but blamed the teacher

-taking away a weeks worth of vacation time/ or changing vacation time after teacher arranged vacation time with school, and informed school that they had already bought their airfare- therefore making the teacher stay for summer camps, or things that suddenly 'came up-'

I know that the teachers have gone to labor/education office for these problems- but for some of them, I guess there is only so much that can effectively be done. And I think these things are pretty terrible- and go against what I was told happens at public schools. Is it worse than the hogwan, maybe not. But still pretty terrible.

[rokscot]

thank god for some real, common sense perspective on life as a PS teacher.

well said GC. much hitting of nails on the head.

[mrsquirrel]

I like this thread. I like it a lot.

I haven't read all of what you said just a skim. I will print it out analyse it and comment later.

Did you mention the signing of contracts then complaining when the school sticks to it? I love that one. Either people are complaining because their school breaks their contract or sticks to their contract. Nobody can ever win.

[Gamecock]

Please tell me the story about the apartment with no running water...

[Alyallen]

Each school is shockingly different from the other. So I can't sit down and rant and rave and rail at teachers who are in situations worse than my own. We could have a thread about just elementary schools and the differences would astound. Some have it good and it's not our right to rag on those who by hook or by crook aren't getting the treatment that they had expected or deserved.

Sure...some teachers may be the cause but I can't help but point out that the school is involved in this dynamic as well. If they can't set up an efficient way to communicate with their foreign worker(s), then they will continue to have problems. That is true of any industry...

I should state that I have been at my elementary school for a year and a half and I can't complain much about the place. This is my last year and IF I come back to Korea, this school will be the benchmark of excellence in my mind.

[some waygug-in]

I personally know several experienced hagwan teachers (4 or 5 yrs) who have taken their crack at the public school system this year. I know of 4 who have left so far, 3 back to hagwans, 1 off to China, 1 off to look for greener pastures. Probably more will be leaving before September...I may even be one of them...who knows.


Your view of things seems a bit skewed to me, as I have 6 years teaching experience before this job and I find it very tempting to walk away from all this BS.

Not that there isn't some truth to what you've written...there may be, but I've met far more experienced teachers who are bitterly unhappy with their jobs than I have newbies. (working in the PS system) Perhaps it has something to do with expectations and knowing what works and what is just a waste of time. Perhaps it's an issue of having some control over what and how we teach or an issue of not being able to handle large groups effectively. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.

If I go early, it will be a mixture of these factors along with a frustration stemming from an inability to resign myself to the role of being a puppet characature of a foreigner or a tape-recording-device that will be the root cause.

Have a good weekend.

[Gamecock]

[root555]

My friend works for a public school and they got her a new apt. (not the one the old teacher had- because the school realized it was too small,) and there were lots of problems:

First there was no running water for 3 weeks.

Then they sent someone who is 'certified' by the public school system to look at it. They got there to be some running water (a trickle I guess-) and there is no hot water. And my friend cannot use her washing machine.

She kept complaining so they sent the same guy over again- he told her to 'look for the pump' in the apt. She said there was no pump. Then even a 3rd time the same guy came around- realized she was right- there is no pump- and put a giant hole in her wall. I think this was in search of the pump- or a way to get more water, and hot water into the apt.

As of today- she still showers at a gym, and has to wash all of her clothes by hand (which I don't know how she does because she barely has water.) She claims that the little water she does have is yellow-rusty colored. And I guess she buys massive bottles of water at the supermarket. Even though she has complained repeatedly to the school that this is unacceptable- they don't care. Or they keep sending over the same guy who does nothing, or just puts massive holes in the wall.

[root555]

This has been going on for the past 2 months I think? Maybe 3.

[Alyallen]

[Gamecock]

Ok,

here's the thing...I'm not telling everyone to "suck it up." If you have legitimate issues, that's one thing. I don't understand how someone doesn't have water in their house for months (which is terrible, i grant you), without raising holy hell! I'd be at the district office everyday until it got remedied, I'd be calling newspapers, etc. That was part of my rant...many of the bad situations are because people let themselves get walked on...

My issue is with the majority of ps threads that complain about having to do the things they agreed about in their contract! Or, the feeling that we are mightily superior in our wisdom than the Koreans we work with or for (maybe you are, but its still irrelevant...as one poster said, he and his friends are seeking greeener pastures. cool.).

By definition, a rant is just that. I'm not telling everyone else how to live their lives. Just letting out frustration. And it does benefit me.

[root555]

Yes- I udnerstand that. I think it's just that ple are given the impression that public schools will treat their employees better- and I do not think that is the case. I think foreign teachers in general have to put up with a lot of sh*t.

[Scouse Mouse]

[vox]

To be fair, there are an awful lot of princes and princesses who take jobs among good-natured Korean staff at public schools, and sour things up for the next person. It's true. I've met a few.

But public school English positions are not by themselves a guarantee of anything, even of getting paid on time, necessarily. I see a lot of English teachers in the position of first foreigner their school has dealt with, and having to teach their school why you can't stick them in a jimjilbang for 3 months, or casually breach the contract, other similar sorts of things.

But the majority of these PS positions are great, and many of those that don't start out great can be worked into great relationships with time and a little effort and diplomacy.

In the end, you the job applicant still need to ask around, as some do with certain hagwons. Sometimes even just being able to say, 'well I've asked at the other schools and all the other principals read the contract differently' can make all the difference in the world. And some of you pointing the finger at Dave's posters need to lighten up and realize that's what some of these posters are doing.