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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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 Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:56 am Post subject: Pope Rat says Protestants (and other infidels) still going.. |
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to hell, baby! (do not pass GO; do not collect 30 pieces of silver   )
Naturally, he uses a slightly more refined way of saying it, just as one would expect from the former top dawg of the Holy Inquisition.
Pope: Other Christians not true churches
By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer
[Here's the money quote] "It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, Dominus Iesus, which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070710/ap_on_re_eu/pope_other_christians
You'll Burrrrn, Baby Burrrrn.
Disclaimer: This image was not doctored in any way
to make Pope Rat look especially devilish.
Last edited by R. S. Refugee on Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| Every preacher of every religion says that of every other religion (including the Athiest faith) says that at every sermon. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| I definitely was a fan of Pope Johannes Paulus II (John Paul II) rather than this current pope. He seems more of a Catholic cleric of a much older mold. He seems like those Catholics who broke away from the church like Mel Gibson. The Church needs another pope. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony_Balony wrote: |
| Every preacher of every religion says that of every other religion (including the Athiest faith) says that at every sermon. |
Indeed. Every god believer is 99.99% atheist. He does not believe in the thousands of gods and hundreds of religions out there, save for one. Tomato put it best. It's like a teacher that writes 200 possible assignments on the blackboard, tells you one is the correct assignment for tomorrow, if you don't do the correct assignment you will be punished, now guess. We'd not call that a fair teacher. We shouldn't call that a fair god either.
I was taught in Catholic school that the Catholic church believed there was truth and salvation in all the world's religions. I guess I was lied to by a nun. |
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cwemory
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Gunpo, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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Remember that old joke about Pope John Paul II being one of the most progressive minds of the 15th century? Apparently he was still too radical for the current funny hat wearer.
Last edited by cwemory on Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony_Balony wrote: |
| Every preacher of every religion says that of every other religion (including the Athiest faith) says that at every sermon. |
No they don`t, just so we`re perfectly clear. A lot of religions don`t even have a hell. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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yawarakaijin
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
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Hehe, that's hilarious. Is it just me or does the press constantly try and use the scariest pictures of this guy they can find? I'm sure he is a nice guy (  ) but he seriously creeps the bejesus out of me. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| yawarakaijin wrote: |
| manlyboy wrote: |
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Hehe, that's hilarious. Is it just me or does the press constantly try and use the scariest pictures of this guy they can find? I'm sure he is a nice guy ( ) but he seriously creeps the bejesus out of me. |
It's his small beady rat-like eyes and pointed ears. His looks would have stood him in good stead if he had chosen a career as an acter. Interesting features. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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There are aspects of Ratzinger I like, and aspects with which I have problems.
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The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession � the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles � and therefore their priestly ordinations are not valid, it said...
The document said that Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they do not recognize the primacy of the pope � a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said. |
So the Protestant Churches are not paths to salvation, but Greek Orthodox churches are, I guess, 'wounded' paths to salvation. Ah well, I suppose crusades tend to cause wounds.
I think Pope Benedict's strategy is to actually turn a great deal of people away from the Church. He wants to energize the clergy by reducing the flock. I find this papacy interesting personally, although Wojtyla's was not boring. I do not think Benedict is as controversial as many portray him, although his ruling against homosexual priests made no sense to me considering that priests are to remain celebate.
I do think that the Pope is a credible threat to extremist Islam, because its emerging conservatism contrasts with what conservative Islamics and perhaps even some Catholics might describe as 'modern decadence.' I think people often forget that American attitudes matter little to the Pope, and of greater concern to Ratzinger has to be emerging Catholicism and the rise of Christianity in Africa.
From the last link, Christians in Africa have gone from 9 million in 1900 to 380 million in this decade. It puts the relative decline of Christianity and Catholicism in Europe in some perspective.
R.S., which do you think is more ridiculous, the many American evangelicals who believe in a literalist interpretation of the Bible and Creationism, or a Catholic Church that has able to accomodate the idea of evolution but asserts that the Church is the one true faith? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| R.S., which do you think is more ridiculous, the many American evangelicals who believe in a literalist interpretation of the Bible and Creationism, or a Catholic Church that has able to accomodate the idea of evolution but asserts that the Church is the one true faith? |
Well, the latest pope is trying to distance the church from evolution as well. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
R.S., which do you think is more ridiculous, the many American evangelicals who believe in a literalist interpretation of the Bible and Creationism, or a Catholic Church that has able to accomodate the idea of evolution but asserts that the Church is the one true faith? |
It is a conundrum, to be sure, Kuros. In all honesty, I rather like the Catholics in spite of their (attempted) suppression of reproductive rights now that they've stopped burning their debating opponents at the stake.
But I particularly liked that reference in your link (not to put too fine a point on it ) to a Saint Charles Darwin. I would pick that over Pat Robertson pulling boogers out his nose and reflecting on their divine significance before he burned another left-wing, communistic, pro-universal health care bed-wetting Democrat at the stake any day. If you know what I mean.
Last edited by R. S. Refugee on Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pharflung
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Tony_Balony:
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| Every preacher of every religion says that of every other religion (including the Athiest faith) says that at every sermon. |
This is not true.
It is not even true of many Christian faiths; the Friends, to name one.
It is certainly not true of most Jews.
And it is absolutely not true of Buddhism.
I attended a retreat with a Buddhist lama, and he made a very definite point that Buddhists should never criticize other religions, or people of other faiths.
It was not just a matter of treating others with respect, it was a recognition that there may be truth to be found in other religions, if one were to walk that path.
I'm afraid I do not always exercise such restraint. There are some pretty obvious flaws with certain religions.
But remarks such as those by Tony_Balony demonstrate the wisdom of this lama's advice, which boils down to keep your mouth shut. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| pharflung wrote: |
| But remarks such as those by Tony_Balony demonstrate the wisdom of this lama's advice, which boils down to keep your mouth shut. |
Depends. If the opinion leader of a certain faith is calling for his beliefs to be enshrined in law, you wouldn't keep your mouth shut. If people of a certain faith were trying to get schools run according to their beliefs, you wouldn't keep your mouth shut. Religion, as practised in the west, is a belief system that dictates how people should lead their lives and interact with others. Any belief system should be open to criticism.
Hence, if person A says "I'm a Christian. I believe X, Y, Z." Fine.
If person B says "I'm a Christian. I believe X, Y, Z. And society needs to change to believe in X, Y, Z." Then I want to examine what good or bad effects such a proposition will have. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
R.S., which do you think is more ridiculous, the many American evangelicals who believe in a literalist interpretation of the Bible and Creationism, or a Catholic Church that has able to accomodate the idea of evolution but asserts that the Church is the one true faith? |
It is a conundrum, to be sure, Kuros. In all honesty, I rather like the Catholics in spite of their (attempted) suppression of reproductive rights now that they've stopped burning their debating opponents at the stake.
But I particularly liked that reference in your link (not to put too fine a point on it ) to a Saint Charles Darwin. I would pick that over Pat Robertson pulling boogers out his nose and reflecting on their divine significance before he burned another left-wing, communistic, pro-universal health care bed-wetting Democrat at the stake any day. If you know what I mean. |
Pat Robertson is rather vile, and its unkind even to most literalist Bible-reading American evangelicals that the media sets people like him and Jerry Falwell up as leaders. Whenever I see the more crazy Muslim clerics spout off I always think of Robertson or Falwell, for all these individuals the media attention they earned from whatever they said was always worth getting their fellow worshippers painted as fanatics.
Fortunately for Catholics, Popes tend to have more gravitas. I say tend to have, because the way the Catholic Church handled the molestation scandals was also quite vile.
Anyway, I still have to come down prefering Catholicism on the whole issue. Disclosure: I was raised Catholic. But evangelicals believe some ridiculous stuff. My favorite kind of Christians are old school Protestants, you know, the old Anglo-Saxon breed, Anglican or Episcopalian, who have a very reasoned and moderate faith. Alternately, the ethnic Catholics are a fun breed. You know, the Italians or Hispanics or Irish.
We'll see with Ratzinger. If the Church as a whole disagrees with his policies, you'll see a radically more liberal Pope replace him. My sense is that no matter what, the Church won't install a successor quite like Benedict. The man is very conservative but also very, very intellectual. |
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