Korean Job Discussion Forums

[oldfatfarang]

I saw an interesting use of 'face' (and shame) in my class this week. One of my 3rd grade middle school classes has been getting pretty slack (they're starting to focus on their final tests and high schools/futures).

So, about 8 students didn't bring text books to class. The co-teacher made them go and get their books, and then - get this - she made them stand at the back of the room and cover their faces with their text books.
Everyone in the class was mortified and the offenders were, incredibly, 'shamed'.

This notion of 'face' is just bizare. Has anyone else seen 'covering the face' used as a classroom tool before?

[pest2]

[oldfatfarang]

Excellent philosophical analysis of 'face'. I'm not sure about the owner's wife/homework example though - she was also using pain (and implied increased pain for future infrigements).

I just don't get 'face'. I've had my Thai lady rip me a new one because I was 'bad mannered to suggest dishonesty' when a Thai man asked five times the going rate for a ferry ride. Apparently, everyone lost face when I called him on it. She took me aside - away from everyone's 'face' - and really gave it to me. (My telling off was done in private to protect her and my face.)


Evidently, I should have just lied to avoid paying the inflated price, e.g., "I'm sorry, I've just remembered we have to do something else now". Then everyone's face would have been protected.

I just don't get 'face'.

[VanIslander]

korean culture is not built on a history of sin/redemption, so because there is no redemption, there should be no sin (or else everyone sins - the sharing of responsibility when blame is handed out, eg., car accidents)

no kuddos for the honesty of confession, no paying off of debts to society

egos get pretty fragile when there is no process of healing

and Koreans certainly have big and fragile egos

[Privateer]

I don't have a problem with 'face' of the kind oldfatfarang described. Just, rather than call someone directly on their action, you let them know indirectly by your actions you won't be cheated, the price comes down and everybody wins! It's just avoiding unnecessary unpleasantness.

But I think what pest2 said, ("Face seems bizarre because its dependent on what most people believe rather than confirmation of the truth"), applies to status in that it's a collective construct. That's true no matter what culture you're from. However Koreans seem to stand out by pursuing status in its purest form, without regard to concomitant material or tangible benefit, enjoyment, inward satisfaction or anything else. They do it or they buy it because, if society says that's how you acquire status, then they have no choice. Why else would they spend night after night drinking themselves sick on cheap, nasty alcohol and paying huge amounts for the privilege? It's a way for the senior to prove they are, well, senior.

They don't know any other way to be.

[pest2]

[Privateer]

Well sometimes, often, the fact that everyone else is doing something is more than sufficient reason for us to do it too. Like in Catch 22 when Yossarian says if everyone else ran away I'd be a damn fool to stay behind, wouldn't I?

Korea just seems to take that to an extreme. Or is that just cultural bias?

Don't see the connection with shamanism though?

[pkang0202]

I see similarities in "saving face" in the East and "Keeping pride" in the West.

[Rapacious Mr. Batstove]

[pest2]

[oldfatfarang]

[Alyallen]

That's a new one...Never witnessed or heard of it before until I read this thread.

The closest that I've seen is making kids stand in the corner but no one seemed more horrified than the kid getting punished. The other students just sat around and snickered.

[Privateer]