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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: seoul
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: Embrace Islam, Help an old lady cross the street, Go to Jail |
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Nigerian Lands in Jail for Helping 60-Year-Old Woman in Riyadh
Javid Hassan & Raid Qusti, Arab News
RIYADH, 6 August 2007 � A new convert to Islam, fired with zeal to do a righteous act, had no idea that he would pay a heavy price for helping a sick woman, one that has landed him 50 days and counting behind bars.
The Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice found him guilty for committing a crime: Being in the presence of a woman who is not a relative (a so-called �illegal state of seclusion�).
Arab News tried several times to contact Ahmed Al-Jardan, spokesman for the commission, but phone calls were not returned. A written fax sent to the commission�s main center asking for comment was also ignored.
Ibrahim Mohammed Lawal, a Nigerian student of Islamic studies at Badiya Islamic Center in Riyadh, learned that his neighbor, a 63-year-old woman, was indisposed and needed medical attention. So he took her to various hospitals in Riyadh, including the Riyadh Medical Complex at Shumaisy, all of which refused to treat her. It was only after the intervention of Sheikh Fawaz, director of Badiya Islamic Center, that the Badiya Hospital admitted the case. Despite the charitable act Mohammed ended up in detention, accused of immoral behavior because he was neither married nor related by blood to the elderly woman.
Speaking to Arab News on phone from his cell in the Malaz prison, Mohammed said that after the woman received treatment and after he returned to Riyadh after three days in the Western Region, he was arrested after checking up on the woman�s health. In the woman�s apartment were three other women related to her.
�I was glad to note that the lady was making steady progress,� he said. �While we were chatting, there was a knock on the door. When this lady opened the door, four or five Saudis, whom I had seen outside the building before, barged in. They accused me of being alone with the woman unrelated to me and suspected my intention behind this visit to her apartment.�
Mohammed said the Saudis identified themselves as members of the commission and took him and the three women into custody and later to Malaz prison. Mohammed says that the commission members also confiscated the money he had in his possession (SR2,750), in addition to his laptop and other personal items.
Mohammed said he tried to contact Shaikh Fawaz to help corroborate his story, but Fawaz is currently hospitalized for a major operation. The judge managed to contact Fawaz in the hospital who backed up the claims by the accused.
�The judge asked me what I wanted,� said Mohammed. �I told him I want to return to Nigeria.�
But before Mohammad can go anywhere, he has to figure out why he is in prison and how to get out. Mohammed, who embraced Islam recently, said he was unable to understand the reason behind his continued detention.
�I wanted to do a good thing for a woman who was sick, and this is what I get in return,� he said. �I lost the support of my family in Nigeria, where my wife and children are upset with me � and here I am languishing in prison.� |
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Alyallen

Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:50 am Post subject: |
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That sucks. I suppose that if he did the same thing in another Muslim country, he would have been lauded for his actions.
Poor guy, I hope he gets out of jail soon.... |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| long live saudi. |
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Junior

Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Location: the eye
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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But of course life is worse in christian culture apparently.
Sometimes people offer you leaflets on the street and other nasy stuff.
i'd prefer to live under sharia law anyday. |
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JAZZYJJJ
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Would the same thing happen in Indonesia??? No.
Saudi Arabia does not equal the Muslim world. They are racist fucks.
J. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| JAZZYJJJ wrote: |
Would the same thing happen in Indonesia??? No.
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Maybe not.
But this does:
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Three girls have been beheaded and another badly injured as they walked to a Christian school in Indonesia.
They were walking through a cocoa plantation near the city of Poso in central Sulawesi province when they were attacked.
This is an area that has a long history of religious violence between Muslims and Christians. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm
Indonesia is not the "moderate" state we often hear described. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Indonesia is not the "moderate" state we often hear described. |
Is there evidence that these killings were endorsed by the state of Indonesia?
Sectarian assassins in Northern Ireland used to carry out killings similar to the ones decribed as happening in Indonesia.
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| Wright's unit called themselves the "Brat pack". Sunday World journalist Martin O'Hagan satirically named them the "rat pack" and Billy Wright himself as "King Rat". Much to Wright's annoyance, the name stuck in popular consciousness. In response, Wright had the newspaper's offices bombed and issued a death threat to O'Hagan and anyone who worked for the paper. |
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Martin O'Hagan, a journalist whom Wright especially disliked, was killed in September 2001 by the Red Hand Defenders, a cover-name.
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And that's just from one guy's glorious career. Yet this paramilitary activity was usually not taken into account when formulating judgements about the ideological position of the British state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Wright_%28terrorist%29 |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:23 am Post subject: |
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The state does not have to sanction religious violence for the religion of the country to be heading down a dangerous path. As Indonesia becomes more free, her people are becoming more extremist. Same goes for Malaysia. Should my pet-theory (that islam needs a strong-man keeping it docile) hold I'd expect Turkey to start showing similar trends in the next 5 years or so.
And lets not forget the role the Indonesian military is said to have played in the last rounds of anti-Chinese race-riots as well. Or, in Malaysia, the racist advocation of ethnic cleansing (again, of Chinese) that is often heard by prominent government ministers (the education minister is likely the worst).
These states that are said to be moderate are nothing at all close to moderation. Unless we define muslim moderation as racist, chauvinist and violent.
And yeah, the Irish were nucking futz. No doubt. The exception that proves the rule, innit? |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| The exception that proves the rule, innit? |
You are aware that in that phrase, "proves" is used in its older meaning of "challenges"?
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Should my pet-theory (that islam needs a strong-man keeping it docile) hold I'd expect Turkey to start showing similar trends in the next 5 years or so.
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Well, according to The Economist...
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Awkwardly for secularists, it took the AK government to pass the most radical set of women's reforms since Ataturk. Husbands are no longer officially heads of household, and wives no longer need their consent to work. Laws letting rapists off the hook if they married their victims have gone; new ones make intra-marital rape a criminal offence and scrap reduced sentences for honour killings.
The AK Party's enthusiasm for women's lib may even cost it votes among its more pious constituents. In Carsamba many promise to back the overtly Islamist Saadet party (which is expected to take no more than 2% of the vote). Yet critics still claim that AK's reformist zeal is driven less by conviction than by a wish to please the European Union. As evidence, they cite Mr Erdogan's failed bid to criminalise adultery three years ago.
Hulya Gulbahar, a lawyer who helped to co-ordinate women who were lobbying parliament for reform, says they faced more resistance from the secular Republican People's Party (CHP) than from AK. Tellingly, only 10% of CHP's parliamentary candidates are women. Admittedly, AK does little better. Edibe Sozen, an academic who is among 62 women (out of 550 candidates) fielded by AK, acknowledges that �changing the [patriarchal] mentality is not as easy as changing the laws.�
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So the trend right now is that the Muslim party would seem to be behaving in a more liberal fashion that the secularists ever did. Whether this trend will hold up is another matter, but I would say that so far the evidence is not quite overwhelmingly on the side of your pet theory.
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And lets not forget the role the Indonesian military is said to have played in the last rounds of anti-Chinese race-riots as well. Or, in Malaysia, the racist advocation of ethnic cleansing (again, of Chinese) that is often heard by prominent government ministers (the education minister is likely the worst).
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Sure, but is that really a question of religion? Or does it have more to do with ethnic nationalism? I'm not an expert on Indonesia, but I'd be willing to wager that a lot of secularist Indonesians are just as culturally xenophobic as the Muslims are.
And wasn't it the secularist strongmen in Turkey who were mostly responsible for the Armenian genocide?
http://tinyurl.com/2fb4j7 |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Just to clarify...
I wrote:
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| So the trend right now is that the Muslim party would seem to be behaving in a more liberal fashion that the secularists ever did. |
I do certainly acknowledge that the social liberalism of the AK Party might be at least partly a result of its growth in the soil of secularism laid down by Ataturk and his successors. |
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JMO

Joined: 18 Jul 2006 Location: Daegu
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:25 am Post subject: |
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I thought the overseas chinese histoically controlled a large % of the indonesian economy. Could that be the reason for the backlash. This has many more sides to it than just the muslim angle obviously. Simple resentment would probably do the trick.
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Malaysia, the racist advocation of ethnic cleansing (again, of Chinese) that is often heard by prominent government ministers (the education minister is likely the worst).
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Well yea I've never heard of a politician using public mistrust of a minority to boost their position before.
And I would agree with OTOH, many people got killed in Ireland simply on the basis of their religion. I wouldn't say thats evidence that the British and Irish states are not moderate. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| Same goes for Malaysia. |
except the islamic party there has got its butt kicked in recent elections. |
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JAZZYJJJ
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| JAZZYJJJ wrote: |
Would the same thing happen in Indonesia??? No.
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Maybe not.
But this does:
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Three girls have been beheaded and another badly injured as they walked to a Christian school in Indonesia.
They were walking through a cocoa plantation near the city of Poso in central Sulawesi province when they were attacked.
This is an area that has a long history of religious violence between Muslims and Christians. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm
Indonesia is not the "moderate" state we often hear described. |
We have gone from one extreme to the other. From the benign act of assisting the elderly across the street to beheadings.
My point was that elsewhere in the Muslim world, what was mentioned in the OP would not happen. Thus the Islam-bashing it was hoping to conjure up was misplaced and unjustified. The article, quite rightly, demonstrated the flaws of the Saudis. So Saudi-bash by all means.
Is Indonesia moderate??? That's an argument for another thread. What has been pointed out, however, is that abhorrent acts can happen in any country where religious tensions exist.
J. |
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Treefarmer

Joined: 29 May 2007
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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i read somewhere that iraq was safer for christians before america invaded it
i hate this shite how american republicans are attacking liberals over shit like the taliban and islamic extremists when it's common knowledge that the taliban only took control of the country because the fucking republican party sponsored them
if there was no reagan, there would be no taliban |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, according to The Economist... |
While I tend to agree with the Economist most of the time, in the case of Turkey they are out of their minds. It is true that the islamists are going to behave "liberally" for the time being, when compared to the military governments and military-supported secular governments that have dominated post-Ataturk Turkey. We might want to stop and consider why Ataturk insisted on such an aggressively secular state. islam is an inherently political entity, and we would be wise not to look at it through the lenses of its perceived similarities to post-modern Christianity in the West.
Last edited by thepeel on Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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