Korean Job Discussion Forums

[flummuxt]

Speaking of cognitive dissonance, I am working with some intelligent, college educated Korean teachers who seem fairly cosmopolitan in their outlook. Then I find these glaring lacunae in their understanding of Western culture.

Shirley Temple, the actress and the drink, draw a blank. "On the Good Ship Lollypop." Nada.

Babe Ruth. Means nothing. Picture of Babe Ruth. Interesting face, but still nothing.

W.C. Fields. Ditto.

Groucho Marx. Marx Brothers: What an odd name!

Abe Lincoln - Got it.

The Civil War. "Which war?"

Mark Twain. Yes, thank God, though it is a bit difficult to explain the language in "Huckleberry Finn" to a foreigner.

Speaking of language, "ain't" is not a word most Korean English teachers have heard of.

Shakespeare. Check.

George Bernard Shaw. Uncheck.

Alfred Hitchcock. A mystery to them.

Big Macs. Of course.

Chrysler Motors. They're lost again.

Casablanca. Heard of it; never saw it.

Television. DVD players. Heard of it, don't believe in owning one. -- At least some of them.

Home computers. The Internet. Ditto.

Paris Hilton. Check, regrettably.

Anna Nicole Smith. Nope, but now that was interesting to explain. I'm not sure they believed me.

Tequila sunrises. Long Island ice tea. Boy, have they got a lot to learn!

I suppose Koreans could easily make a list of things Asian that Westerners have never heard of. But I'm not sure it would be entirely symmetrical. They seem surprised to learn we have stuff like mung bean sprouts in our supermarkets. Or that we have heard of ginseng.

Now all this is not to put down Koreans. Intelligence is not measured by cultural quizzes.

But I think if you are a Korean teaching English it helps to understand the cultural background of the language. And if you are actually using your knowledge of the English, it would seem you would run into these references sooner or later, especially with the Internet.

It seems to me that as ESL teachers we should be teaching young people something of this cultural context, especially since many of them hope to study abroad.

Any other surprising gaps that you have noticed in otherwise well-educated Koreans?

[Ya-ta Boy]

A: Foreign teachers like to move around from city to city every year.
B: Ummm...I think they're looking for a better job.
A: No, they just like to move. So do young Koreans.
B: That couldn't have anything to do with wanting to be treated fairly could it?
A: No.

[mithridates]

Pretty much anything to do with Star Trek or Star Wars. I've never seen a Star Trek with Korean subtitles though so that isn't really their fault as you have to have pretty flawless English to know which words are real and which are made up (tachyon beam no, tricorder no, shuttle yes, phaser no, shields yes, phase disruptor no, prime directive yes, warp core kind of, synthehol also kind of, android yes, positronic no). All that made-up terminology could really tire a person out.

[Mix1]

Heck, many young Americans these days would have trouble with that list too maybe...or regretably.

And you just cherry picked that list out of yer arse anyway...Shirley Temple, Babe Ruth, Casablanca...why should Koreans be expected to know all about these things? It would be nice sure from a cultural enrichment standpoint, but certainly no requirement while regurgitating Konglish phrases into the ears of Korean youths during class. They are supposed to know about George Bernard Shaw too? What do you want to do ...bore them all to death?

But yes, I agree it would be interesting to see a list of all the stuff we don't know about Eastern culture dating back from around Shakespeares time to present...how we would judge if its symmetrical or not I don't know.

[Paji eh Wong]

I'm doing the same thing right now.

[Alyallen]

[jg]

Many of those are pop culture relics. What you should be saying is that Koreans are not infatuated with pre-war American pop culture, and why should they be? The exposure to/depth of information about current pop culture is big enough, they've got to be ready with stuff from decades ago?

BTW, "Western Culture" is bigger than just rattling off names of once-prominent Americans. Lots of that list came about before internet, cable tv, even cheap portable tvs and FM radio. You only know it because you have been saturated with lard beemed down from satellites. I'd like to have Anna Nicole Smith erased from my memory.

Lacunae? "Well technically, it is brain damage."

[RACETRAITOR]

[HapKi]

Speaking of cheap portable T.V.'s, ask any Korean what color the Incredible Hulk is. The show was popular here in the 80's, yet with a lack of color T.V. sets at the time, he showed up as a form of dark grey.
Of course, now with the movie being out...

[flummuxt]

Perhaps I should clarify how I came across some of these gaps.

I send out a quotation of the day by e-mail to other Korean teachers to help them learn English. I generally try to find short quotations that are relatively easy to decipher.

But some quotations are important because they have become part of our language. "Round up the usual suspects." Or "I don't need no stinking badges" are two that come to mind, though both are Bogey lines.

Actually, Yogi Berra is a better example, such as:

"This is like deja vu all over again."

If they come across these quotes or paraphrases of these quotes, and don't understand the context, they will be lost.

And if they don't know the character to whom the quotes are attributed, they could completely fail to break the code. Such as these by Groucho Marx:

"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

"Women should be obscene and not heard."

And then there is the immortal Dorothy Parker:

"Men seldom make passes
At girls who wear glasses."

"If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised"

So I try to give a biographical background. That's when I learn whether they have heard of these people or are a total blank. And I am often surprised.

I was especially surpised to find that none of the teachers had heard of Wikipedia.

With the help of the Internet and Wikipedia, it sure is easy for an ESL teacher to seem like a genius here!

And a good quotation site, such as:

http://www.quotationspage.com/

[Qinella]

[Qinella]

[CentralCali]

Something that I find interesting is that quite a lot of people, including teachers, I've met here are unfamiliar with free variation in pronunciation. The most recent instance for me was at church. One of the kids showed me a hymn written in English and asked me to read it aloud. He was shocked that I pronounced Amen with a long A for the first syllable. Maybe I should show him Lilies of the Field.

I'm also surprised by the number of native English teachers who don't know the difference between who's and whose or that 's is not how plurals are constructed in written English. Another thing that I find odd is the number of people who say and write sentences along the lines of "Give it to whomever volunteers." The correct pronoun in that sentence is whoever.

And don't forget the infamous mistaken use of "you and I" for the accusative!

I wouldn't be too hard on Koreans for not knowing which civil war someone's referring to. After all, there were civil wars in England, the United States, and other countries.

[CentralCali]

[caniff]

What Q said. OP, you are wasting their time and simultaneously being a complete putz. Congratulations.

People like you (I will add 'as teachers', because you might be a nice guy in everyday life) make me cringe when I hear about stuff like this. It smacks of cultural superiority. And regardless of how you feel about your culture's position vis-a-vis Korean culture, you shouldn't go there.

"Okay, everyone, listen up. Who first coined the term 'Voodoo Economics'? Anyone? Anyone?"