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crazylemongirl

Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Location: almost there...
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: Lecturer sacked for denying essay extension |
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My old uni is in the
headlines after a political studies lecturer got the boot for an abusive email to an international student who asked an essay extension because her dad died.
I never took any of his classes but anyone who is in the department knows this guy is a *beep* when it comes to granting extensions but on the flip side is easily the best lecturer in the department. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Paul Buchanan wrote: |
It's extremely hard to teach at graduate level when you have people who literally do not know the language of instruction. |
First, he is exactly right. And it sounds like Auckland University is sacrificing quality graduate seminars (in their admitting substandard international students) for money, or worse: PC motives.
Next, your comment that "anyone who is in the department knows this guy is a *beep*" suggests that he may not have been well-liked and others on the faculty and/or the administration might have been gunning for him. So this served as a pretext.
Finally, perhaps he deserves to be sacked for stupidity. One does not send emails like that to students or in business. Stick to business and keep it short and sweet. "No, I will not grant you an extension. Please see me if you have any questions." Emails have a way of turning up and being used against you. So, we must learn to write emails like we used to write business correspondence: deny people any opportunity to make something of it.
This being said, what are the university's policies on such extensions? Is it a courtesy or a right? If so, who decides? |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Location: Nearly in NK
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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The guy sounds more than a little anally retentive. I taught writing for 6 years in Korea. I always gave extensions, but I did so one the clear understanding that a delay meant loss of some marks. |
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Alyallen

Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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I've never been in a situation like this but if a parent dies would a university tend to give an extension for such an event?
I think for an international student, it's a bigger problem, since they would have to get on a plane to go to the funeral and then turn around and come right back...But I suppose some would say that they should suck it up and deal with it because it's a only a parent after all....
I'm American and I went to college on the east coast but had friends who were from the west coast and even as far away as Alaska. I think my school would grant an extension for them and for international students as well but each school is different.... |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Alyallen wrote: |
...would a university tend to give an extension for such an event? |
American universities can give "Incompletes" for up to a year. You get an "I" on your transcript until you finish your work. Then you get a grade. But the "I" will remain, too. (And it is not good to have them, by the way; makes you look like you cannot hack it.)
Some depts., and within them, some professors, do and some do not. Some will press you hard if you ask for one.
Cannot speak for Auckland University, however.
In any case, it still sounds like this student was failing and looking for a way to prolong it, hoping she could still earn credit. And an "I" would not really have helped her much at the end of the day. |
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Alyallen

Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
Alyallen wrote: |
...would a university tend to give an extension for such an event? |
American universities can give "Incompletes" for up to a year. You get an "I" on your transcript until you finish your work. Then you get a grade. But the "I" will remain, too. (And it is not good to have them, by the way; makes you look like you cannot hack it.)
Some depts., and within them, some professors, do and some do not. Some will press you hard if you ask for one.
Cannot speak for Auckland University, however.
In any case, it still sounds like this student was failing and looking for a way to prolong it, hoping she could still earn credit. And an "I" would not really have helped her much at the end of the day. |
I don't think all schools have "incompletes" stay on your record...But then again how many schools are there in America...they are all a bit different.... |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Alyallen wrote: |
I don't think all schools have "incompletes" stay on your record... |
Credible institutions do note this. Every university I have studied at and taught at (UC schools and others I will not mention) places an "I" on your permanent transcript. When you complete your coursework you might earn an "A" or any other appropriate grade (and if you do not, it becomes an "F" after as much as a year in some cases). But the "I" remains next to your final grade on your permanent transcripts. -- And it is something graduate and professional admissions committees take into consideration all the time. It is part of how they measure applicants' potential.
I know this for a fact. I have issued such grades several times and I have reviewed and explained the policy with the students who asked for them.
You may not think this sounds right to you. But I am citing actual policy from several locations. And, always, Alyallen, you may take it or leave it.
UCLA's Policy on "Incompletes" |
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Alyallen

Joined: 29 Mar 2004 Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
Alyallen wrote: |
I don't think all schools have "incompletes" stay on your record... |
Credible institutions do note this. Every university I have studied at and taught at (UC schools and others I will not mention) places an "I" on your permanent transcript. When you complete your coursework you might earn an "A" or any other appropriate grade (and if you do not, it becomes an "F" after a year). But the "I" remains next to your final grade on your permanent transcripts. -- And it is something graduate and professional admissions committees take into consideration all the time. It is part of how they measure applicants' potential.
I know this for a fact. I have issued such grades several times and I have reviewed and explained the policy with the students who asked for them.
You may not think this sounds right to you. But I am citing actual policy from several locations. And, always, Alyallen, you may take it or leave it. |
*shrugs* I'm just stating what I had heard from friends at a number of different schools but I guess they would all be bunk schools by your estimation...  |
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cubanlord

Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Location: In Japan!
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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I've read the article. The punishment served the crime. He was racist and his unethical approach was unbecoming of a well-respect professor. Therefore, his release, in my eyes, is justified. I'm a firm believer in holding people accountable for their actions; there was NO excuse for him to say the things he said. That's ridiculous. For anyone to argue that it was okay for him to treat a student with such blatant disrespect is asinine. Universities have a responsibility to maintain a professional working environment for both teachers and students alike. Having a post-graduate degree doesn�t make you King. All it means is that you have researched in a particular, extremely narrow subject. That�s it. It baffles me to no end that some with their Ph.D.�s walk as if they are above the rest. I have met both types of professors and tend to value those that are more down to Earth. They are smart and treat you with respect. The others, well, are just smart and really need to work on their people skills.
Now, was he wrong in denying her an extension? I don't think so. That's his prerogative as HE is the professor. However, to write that crap...me thinks not! |
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laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know any universities that do this (the incomplete thing). Not to say there aren't any, as obviously there are. But backing up a statement like "credible institutions note this" with a bit more fact than a limited scope of observations (observations of schools they went to) would be helpful. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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laogaiguk wrote: |
I don't know... |
Fact of the matter is this: you do not know. You have impressions. And what I said just does not sound right to you. So what? That seems to be the standard way people think around here. And it is stupid.
I cited UCLA's policy as an example. I could cite many more.
Take Cornell's policy, for example...
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A grade of Incomplete is given when a student is unable to finish the work for a course on time due to highly extenuating circumstances. In order to receive a grade of Incomplete, the student must have substantial equity in the course. The final decision as to whether a grade of Incomplete will be given rests with the instructor of the course.
If the work is completed within the designated time period agreed upon by the instructor and the student, the Incomplete will be changed to a regular grade on the student�s official transcript. A course that receives a grade of Incomplete will be noted with an asterisk on the student�s official transcript when the final grade is recorded. If the work is not completed within the designated time period, the grade of Incomplete automatically will be converted to an F.
Note: A student may not graduate with an Incomplete on the transcript. |
What have you got, Laogaiguk? |
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laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
laogaiguk wrote: |
I don't know... |
Fact of the matter is this: you do not know. You have impressions and what I said just does not sound right to you.
I cited UCLA's policy as an example. I could cite many more.
What have you got, Laogaiguk? |
That is not a response. I don't know because all the universities I know don't have this practice.
You can not make a statement that contains all universities in it and say ones that don't do something are not credible, which is what your statement says. The burden of proof is on you. To start, you must define what "credible" means and then you must show that institutions that don't include the "I" are not credible under that definition and that the ones that do are credible. I am challenging your use of the word credible. Are you sure it's not a geographical problem either (i.e. certain areas follow this)?
You can cite as many as you want, but you must do the things I said above to prove it though.
Last edited by laogaiguk on Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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laogaiguk wrote: |
Are you sure it's not a geographical problem either? |
Do you even know where UCLA and Cornell are located? |
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laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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Gopher wrote: |
laogaiguk wrote: |
Are you sure it's not a geographical problem either? |
Do you even know where UCLA and Cornell are located? |
Personal attacks, while common when losing, don't answer the questions I posed. If you wish, you can actually back up what you said or retract it. Your choice. |
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Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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Why would I retract what I simply reported, above, when it is correct information and the only thing you have against it is that it does not sound right to you?
In any case, I did not assault you with a personal attack. I merely find it odd that I would cite two examples of credible institutions and their "Incomplete" policies on America's East and West Coasts and that you would suggest that my understanding was limited by "a geographical problem."
In any case, it is clear that I could cite one-hundred credible institutions and their "Incomplete" policies and you would continue to reject what I have simply reported, above. |
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