Korean Job Discussion Forums

[DanielP]

Hey guys,
Lately, I've been curious about the advantages or disadvantages of being a foreigner with respect to Koreans in general, and the opposite gender.

I am curious because as I was walking with one of my Korean girl friends in Itaewon the other day, I noticed how shocked and intimidated she was by seeing "all these foreigners". This intrigued me because, like many of you, I have lived and am currently living in a foreign country, and am used to seeing people of different nationalities. I take it it's not the same for Koreans?

That being said, what do you suppose are some of the advantages/disadvantages of being a foreigner here? How people of the same gender, opposite gender treat / perceive you for being a foreigner?

Personally, I think that:

Advantages:
- You are perceived as unique and different, and that creates curiosity here.
- Depending on where you go and how you hold yourself, being a foreigner puts you in a higher value status (just what I perceive).
- If you speak Korean, even a little, you are very unique, and you even get "ooohs" and "aahs".

Disadvantages:
- Being an English teacher, from my experience (I've hit the 6 month mark now) and what I've shared with others, is looked down upon here by Koreans.
- Women are more quickly on their guard with foreigners because of "tainting" their reputation (don't get me started here ).


What are your thoughts?

DanielP


Any ideas or thoughts are much appreciated!
DanielP

[Dev]

Being a foreigner in Korea gets you neither privilege nor hardship from Koreans. It's how well you can speak their language which counts. If you can speak Korean well, it's much easier to establish relations.

[alwaysfaithless]

It seems these days there are no advangages of being a foreigner in this country. I remember a few years ago when Koreans were more than happy to hep the lost foriegner looking for directions.....but now it sems it becoming rarer. I tink Koreans are seeing the effects of capitalism and how it is effecting their way of life. They are over worked to make ends meet,they are iving in highrises with limited land. Traffic congestion, noise polluttion is a part of their daily life, yet somehow thay manage to survie hanging on to each other with pride......................... 'foreigners are no longer a novelty; but more or less a pain in their sociali lives. I can see in the near future that we whitey's will be replaced soon by gyopos...it only makes sense. These guys seem to understand Korean culture better than us, many speak both languages and are not an eye sore to Koreas's homogenous world. I think it is what many truly wish, anyway. Could I be wrong?

[mercury]

[jackson7]

I have to agree with both sides. (Is that allowed?)

When my Korean was at a very low level, I received special treatment quite often, but also got screwed from time to time by shopkeepers and cabbies. Koreans always seemed quite nice to me, but it was also a bit superficial-feeling.

Now I can speak Korean conversationally, and life has improved 10-fold. I have a great Korean girlfriend, tons of Korean friends that aren't hanging out with me to learn English (because we don't speak English when together), and getting around and getting things done is constantly a satisfying victory that usually comes off without a hitch. I still study Korean daily, but my ability to speak, read, and write are improving much quicker because outside of work, I rarely speak English.

Funny side note: My roommate has been studying Korean very diligently since here arrived a year ago, and speaks and writes much better than I do, but because he is a bit shy, he rarely uses that ability. I, on the other hand, couldn't care less about my grammatical errors, and thus take every chance possible to "show off" or use Korean. For that reason, everyone always tells me, "Wow, you speak Korean really well!" Everyone that is, except my girlfriend. She constantly tries to argue to people that I really don't speak it that well. Last night, after she said this to some of her friends we were meeting, I asked her later, "Why do you always say that?" She replied simply, "Because I'm your girlfriend, hehe."

Good point. I guess.

[Dev]

[therooster]

So I woke up this morning...without any memory as to how , when ,what and why .....in a huge conference centre...(soju)

I was asleep on the chairs which stradled the stage.....and as I opened my eyes at least 1000 people were anxiously awaiting my sentience ...


anyway...i woke up and asked what would be the normal question in the circumstances ..."where the *beep* am I ?" ...to a riotously pleased audience....which laughed in unison ... and then went on to propose that which has baffled philosophers for eons... "What the *beep* is going on ?"


Again....great appreciation and applause..a standing ovation as I walked out....

this is possibly the coolest and funniest thing to ever happen to anyone who ever drank soju ...once again when it comes to monumental *beep* ups I have no equal....seriously....it's quite possible that I am the coolest person to ever live...probable even...

[Atavistic]

I think the advantage/disadvantage of being foreign is two sides of the same coin.

You are not Korean, thus you will NEVER fit into the social hierarchy.

This can be very freeing to you AND Koreans you come in contact with. You can befriend people who normally couldn't befriend you if you were Korean. You can get away with ignoring some of the social rules. The more non-traditional Koreans are cool with you, and the more non-traditional ones are the easiest to get along with (in my opinion). Eventually a group may accept you completely.

This can also be very limiting to you AND Koreans you come in contact with. Even though you don't understand the politics at play at work, you have to play them a bit yourself. People will sometimes automatically hate you simply because you're foreign. It can be very isolating and lonely to be friends with a group but still not fit perfectly within that group.

Speaking even a little Korean, as mentioned, helps things tremendously. I once got a 20,000 won taxi ride free. Why? The driver was a Marine in Vietnam. I mentioned that my brother is a US Marine and taught him the branches in English. He said, "Free ride! Your brother Marine, I Marine! And you speak Korean very well!"

As for gender/opposite sex... I am a female and I think foreign women here probably have it slightly easier than men when it comes to general life. I think people are more willing to help us because "oh, poor baby, you're all alone and foreign and no man is taking care of you." Also, we're less likely to be mistaken for US Military.

As for the opposite sex, I think women have a harder time dating here. I have several white women/Korean man married couple friends and have found that most of the men who want to date foreigners seriously, are very non-traditional and cool. One of my coworkers yelled at me to never marry a Korean man because they're too sexist and expect to be waited on hand-and-foot and "they're too conservative." I said, "Any man who would marry a white woman isn't that convervative." She thought about that and then said, "Oh, then you are very lucky!"

As for being the foreigner in a foreign/Korean relationship... I think the best part is that you can take parts of your cultures that you like and keep them and take parts you don't like and scrap them. However, the hard part is that you both have expectations from your own culture that you aren't even usually aware of, and you still usually put them on each other.

One of the other difficulties is getting from "I just want to date a white women to be exotic" to "I am actually serious about you, I don't care that you're white." But I had the same experience when I dated men who weren't white in America.

[DanielP]

Guys,
those are some very powerful and intriguing observations. I like how you guys delved into this and answered genuinely.

Personally, I find it interesting living here as well from the perspective of someone who "could pass" as a Gyopo (I have almond eyes, dark hair and eyes) and am studying the language daily too.

I agree with you Dev when you say that if you don't speak the language, you are isolated. That really got to me one day on the subway when I just wanted to ask a woman when Spiderman 3 was coming out (she had the movie mag. and the picture of the date and everything but it was all in Korea). That's what's motivating me to learn the language.

I do agree that speaking Korean raises a foreigner's value ten-fold, mainly because it's rare and also because it allows for you and the Koreans to actually share thoughts, expressions, etc...and learn about each other's cultures a lot more.

I also agree with you Dev about what you said with respect to priviledges or not. It's not being a foreigner, but what you do from that social position that makes a difference. I know a guy who speaks Korean fluently (been here 7 years or so), and is pretty well set up here, yet he's an albino.

I agree with you ALwaysFaithless. I think the Novelty of seing foreigners is faiding rapidly. Or at least in Seoul. Although, I don't think we're a pain unless we present ourselves that way.

Mercury, whereabouts in Korea do you live? I sure as hell don't get that =/

Atavistic, I like your opinion, and I'm curious as to why, do you think, that foreign women here have a hard time dating? To be honest, I think there are some foreign women who could do better but they don't take care of themselves well enough. There's a saying that goes "There are no such thing as fat women, only lazy women" and I think it's very prevailent among foreign women in Korea. What do you think? It is tough to get a serious relationship here, unless you speak the language, and at least seem like you are going to be here a while.

Great posts guys.

DanielP

[Atavistic]

[just another day]

[Atavistic]

[just another day]

[Atavistic]

[just another day]

^ LOL

damm.. u already sound like a korean woman. dating someone younger than you, don't want kids.... (all trends nowadays...)

kukkiwon? is that a derivation of kuk-sool-won? i actually know the family who started kuk-sool-won pretty well in the states. i know their federation is all over korea.