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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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When I see an abused apostrophe on Dave's I ... |
... am incensed, and post immediately to point out the mistake as disparagingly as possible. |
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5% |
[ 3 ] |
... am aware that I might seem pedantic if I say something, but it bothers me so much that I do often pipe up. |
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11% |
[ 6 ] |
... am bothered, but also scared I'll look uptight/pedantic/pathetic if I mention it, so I roll my eyes and do nothing. |
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44% |
[ 23 ] |
... couldn't give a monkey's. |
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38% |
[ 20 ] |
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Total Votes : 52 |
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silvertoes
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Location: Busan
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:26 am Post subject: Misuse of apostrophes |
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There are a fair few people on these forums who don't seem to know how and when to use apostrophes correctly. I wouldn't mind so much if the bulk of people using Dave's weren't English teachers. I guess it must bother me a bit - since I always notice it - but I'm not Lynne Truss or anything. You? |
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charlieDD
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Location: Seoul, Korea
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:33 am Post subject: |
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You're seeing how people use them on a forum, where one is relaxed and types out sentences as he / she would speak. I use apostrophes, semi-colons, colons, dashes, etc. a lot when I am typing on forums, in informal emails, and such. Do I know how to use them properly when I need to? Of course. I think the same is true of most of those who post here and "abuse" the apostrophe in the course. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Location: the crib
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:46 am Post subject: |
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Yeah this topic has been broached before. It is an annoying thing, but I don't point it out not for fear of appearing pedantic, but more because no one cares. It's not like the person who typed it is going to thank me for taking the time to point out their error.
The funny thing is how when topics like this arise around here, there are always people who make the excuse that they are not typing an essay, or they are relaxed when typing. That's dumb. I mean.. either you know how to write and have good habits instilled in you, or you do not. Improper capitalization or ellipses usage are Internetisms, and could fall under the lazy writing category, but misusage of apostrophes indicates poor writing skillz. |
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VanIslander

Joined: 18 Aug 2003 Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: The Road to Ithaca
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:41 am Post subject: |
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I didn't vote because my answer wasn't listed. "It adds to my accumulating sense that the world and everything in it is doomed, but I learned years ago that there's no use fighting it, because people who don't care about it don't care about it and never will."
That said, here's what I know about people who know how to use apostrophes and ellipses and whatnot correctly, but who don't; they don't give a sh!t about they're audience. Further, they generally seem to think that what they're "writing" is so important that those of us reading them will go to the extra trouble to make sense out of whatever it is they may be trying to say.
Sloppy punctuation is just another way of saying, "I have no regard for you whatsoever."
Further, those of us who raise our voices in any sort of appeal for even a glancing nod in the direction of standard usage are decried as pedants or elitists.
Do I proofread posts on Dave's less carefully than I do, say, a cover letter? Certainly. Do I make typos and misspellings? You bet. But if it's something I want to say at all, I try to say it in a way that people will understand without having to work their way through my sloppiness.
At any rate, what we would probably find if the gross offenders all got with the program and wrote intelligibly is that what they were trying to say wasn't worth saying in the first place.
The obvious conclusion is that this sort of problem is actually an indication of a poorly educated, disorganized mind, and protestations that the informality of the forum allow for such sloppiness are just a smoke screen for people who have nothing to say to hide behind. |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Location: Seoul, South Korea
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Misuse of apostrophes |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:18 am Post subject: |
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It is a common problem. Why do you think it is so common? Did this problem emerge before the internet was in our lives. I didn't know this was a problem until I was aware of the internet.
Last edited by Adventurer on Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Boodleheimer

Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Location: working undercover for the Man
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: |
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daskalos wrote: |
I didn't vote because my answer wasn't listed. "It adds to my accumulating sense that the world and everything in it is doomed, but I learned years ago that there's no use fighting it, because people who don't care about it don't care about it and never will."
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shoot, i already voted. but that's a better answer than the one i voted for. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Your and you're; they're and their are different words. Of course people slip up when typing, but consistent misuse is not an accident. |
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gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: city of paper
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Ever notice that people are much more likely to misuse apostrophes when pluralising foreign words or acronyms, particularly when they finish on a vowel? |
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ajuma

Joined: 18 Feb 2003 Location: Anywere but Seoul!!
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, it's a fine line between a typo and an actual error. I usually let grammar/spelling mistakes go (with a notable recent exception! (see the "resourse" thread in the Job Discussion forum! ))
Sometimes the apostrophe errors bother me, like when someone says "lets go to a party" instead of "let's go to a party", but this is one I usually put down to lazy writing. However when people make the your/you're mistake, I DO want to jump on them...but I usually restrain myself! |
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gang ah jee

Joined: 14 Jan 2003 Location: city of paper
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: |
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ajuma wrote: |
Yeah, it's a fine line between a typo and an actual error. I usually let grammar/spelling mistakes go (with a notable recent exception! (see the "resourse" thread in the Job Discussion forum! ))
Sometimes the apostrophe errors bother me, like when someone says "lets go to a party" instead of "let's go to a party", but this is one I usually put down to lazy writing. However when people make the your/you're mistake, I DO want to jump on them...but I usually restrain myself! |
Ho ho, your signature was 'Ajuma's Rule!' for a long time wasn't it? I used to look at it and wonder just what Ajuma's rule was. But see my above post - I think there's a natural tendency to use apostrophes to mark the boundary between loanwords and the plural morpheme. |
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billybrobby

Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: |
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Qinella wrote: |
The funny thing is how when topics like this arise around here, there are always people who make the excuse that they are not typing an essay, or they are relaxed when typing. That's dumb. I mean.. either you know how to write and have good habits instilled in you, or you do not. |
I disagree. When I write a post on here, I'm usually listening to a little voice in my head which is narrating how the post should go. And this voice does not dictate how the post should be spelled, capitalized, or punctuated. Now, I could slow down and correct all the errors that slip through, but I find it more important to bang out the gist of the post before I even start thinking of that stuff. If I have time, I'll go back and correct all the errors. And believe me, any time you see an error-free post from me, it's not an accident. It's the result a several read-throughs and a lot of corrections. But I think a lot of people, including myself, think in terms of the spoken language. And if they were to stop to correct every error that occurs in transferring the spoken language to the written language, it would impede their thought process. And lord knows, you wouldn't want to impede the glorious thought process that processes all my wonderful posts. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: The Road to Ithaca
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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ajuma wrote: |
Yeah, it's a fine line between a typo and an actual error. I usually let grammar/spelling mistakes go (with a notable recent exception! (see the "resourse" thread in the Job Discussion forum! ))
Sometimes the apostrophe errors bother me, like when someone says "lets go to a party" instead of "let's go to a party", but this is one I usually put down to lazy writing. However when people make the your/you're mistake, I DO want to jump on them...but I usually restrain myself! |
It's not even the obvious homonyms that bother me. It's/its. Your/you're. They're/their/there. When we're typing along and "in the spirit," sometimes our brains and our hands aren't communicating as well as they should be. It happens.
It's the blanket disregard that grates my cheese. Lets for let's is a good one. I guess it's the plural possessives that cause the most problems. Kids/Kid's/Kids'. Children/Children's/Childrens'. Men/Men's/Mens'. (Extra credit for knowing what grouping's three choices are all possible in English.)
What bothers me about all of this is that it makes me think that higher education has become nothing more than advanced trade school. We don't go college anymore to become educated, we go to learn a way to make more money.
Less than a hundred years ago, anyone and everyone who had a degree could be assumed to have a certain level of competency in stringing words into sentences that turned into cogent paragraphs. Just as anyone with a degree could be assumed to be able to place Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar and Constantine into the correct chronological sequence. Most college graduates today cannot do so, even when the choices are given, as I have listed them, in the correct chronological sequence.
What is most horrifying about all of this is that most college-educated people today don't even acknowledge or understand the importance of what was until recently the irreducible mininum body of knowledge that passed for education. Today, because we are all specialists, we no longer have a common point of reference.
Higher education has specialized itself into a state where what once constituted the most basic metrics of the educated, organized mind have become something on the order of esoterica. Wow, you can write a grammatically correct sentence? Wow, you know who fought the Punic Wars? Wow, you know what a quadratic equation is? Wow, you can speak another language?
It's very sad, and it's why the world, and everything in it, is doomed. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: The Road to Ithaca
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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billybrobby wrote: |
And lord knows, you wouldn't want to impede the glorious thought process that processes all my wonderful posts. |
My point exactly, and yes, actually, we do want to impede that, if by "impede" we mean "edit" or "proof read." Your glorious thoughts need to be shaped into intelligible sentences, and if you can't give your readers that much consideration, please shut up. |
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