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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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 Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, but to quote Boing Boing, "This was before 9-11 when Saddam Hussein personally flew two airlines into the Twin Towers" |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Not ironic. Lot of different variables to consider.
9/11 and other terrorist attacks and events, beginning, if memory serves, just a year or so after Cheney spoke here.
Differences in competency and cabinet-level leadership between H.W. Bush and W. Bush as well re: Middle-East policy. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Not ironic. Lot of different variables to consider.
9/11 and other terrorist attacks and events, beginning, if memory serves, just a year or so after Cheney spoke here. |
You include 9/11 as if it were relevant. There is nothing anywhere that gives any credence to the idea that 9/11 and Iraq were related. I know you will claim they acted with honor and truth and the American flag draped around them; that their cause was noble and they really, truly believed what they were doing before they clicked their heels on their ruby-red shoes, but that is so much debunked pig squat, so save your breath.
The quote is from 1994 or so. FYI.
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| Differences in competency and cabinet-level leadership between H.W. Bush and W. Bush as well re: Middle-East policy. |
Very true. But I jest! The people in the current administration have, in fact, done their jobs quite well, with the exception of the execution of the war. Getting into it? A+. Creating a fearful and timid congress? Off the scale. Creating a fearful and timid people? Formerly off the scale, now about a B+. Rigging the electoral process? Off the scale. Draining the coffers of the country and the middle class into the pockets of the wealthy? Off the scale. Getting hold of the Iraqi Oil? Incomplete.
Let us get back to Cheney more directly. Iraq, by the description given in that video, backed by the reality since invasion, was going to be a quagmire. Since we know, and they knew, Iraq had no relationship to terrorism or 9/11, and it was going to be a quagmire by Dick's very own assessment, why in the name of all that is, ever was and will be did they go in there?
Answer me this, friend. And do so with neither the spin nor an apologist's extreme twists of logic and truth. |
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just another day
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Location: Living with the Alaskan Inuits!!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: |
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i don't get it.
his daughter is lesbian, he was against the invasion of iraq, and had many reasons for it that came true.
maybe he's just quiet nowadays because he's a puppet?? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| keane wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Not ironic. Lot of different variables to consider.
9/11 and other terrorist attacks and events, beginning, if memory serves, just a year or so after Cheney spoke here. |
You include 9/11 as if it were relevant. There is nothing anywhere that gives any credence to the idea that 9/11 and Iraq were related. I know you will claim they acted with honor and truth and the American flag draped around them; that their cause was noble and they really, truly believed what they were doing before they clicked their heels on their ruby-red shoes, but that is so much debunked pig squat, so save your breath.
The quote is from 1994 or so. FYI.
| Quote: |
| Differences in competency and cabinet-level leadership between H.W. Bush and W. Bush as well re: Middle-East policy. |
Very true. But I jest! The people in the current administration have, in fact, done their jobs quite well, with the exception of the execution of the war. Getting into it? A+. Creating a fearful and timid congress? Off the scale. Creating a fearful and timid people? Formerly off the scale, now about a B+. Rigging the electoral process? Off the scale. Draining the coffers of the country and the middle class into the pockets of the wealthy? Off the scale. Getting hold of the Iraqi Oil? Incomplete.
Let us get back to Cheney more directly. Iraq, by the description given in that video, backed by the reality since invasion, was going to be a quagmire. Since we know, and they knew, Iraq had no relationship to terrorism or 9/11, and it was going to be a quagmire by *beep*'s very own assessment, why in the name of all that is, ever was and will be did they go in there?
Answer me this, friend. And do so with neither the spin nor an apologist's extreme twists of logic and truth. |
Iraq had no relationship to terrorism?
Funding suicide bombers
Trying to kill an American president
Abu Nidal
Anyway
If mideast regimes and elties stop teaching hate and inciting violence then they were be a lot less terrorists. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Iraq had no relationship to terrorism? |
Sloppy of me. He had no relationship to the terrorism he was accused of being related to, AQ. This you know.
Got anything to say on the topic? That is, on Cheney's two faces on the issue and what changed so much between '94 and '03 in Iraq? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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There was this event called 9-11 which showed that the mideast as it was was a threat to the US.
It also showed that that the US could not contain Saddam , Iran AND pressure Saudi Arabia on Al Qaeda at the same time. |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| keane wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Iraq had no relationship to terrorism? |
Sloppy of me. He had no relationship to the terrorism he was accused of being related to, AQ. This you know.
Got anything to say on the topic? That is, on Cheney's two faces on the issue and what changed so much between '94 and '03 in Iraq? |
Are you that ignorant of the breaking down of the sanctions? Oil-for-food scandal...the fact that Russian, French and German interests were salivating to end the sanctions and take advantage of their relationship with the madman and his oil???
And that Saddam was paying money to suicide bombers in Israel? Bombers who killed, in addition to Israelis, people from over a dozen nations...
None of this could possibly influence an intelligent person's thinking on the issue in the intervening years? In a post 9-11 world (and btw, something people forget, Saddam's state run media was ordered to play celebratory music after the 9-11 attacks. As far as I know, the only government run media in the world to do so on tht day (unless the Taliban had a TV station?)
For this alone, IMHO, the invasion was more than justified. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
| Are you that ignorant of the breaking down of the sanctions? |
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but you are saying that Cheney's line of thought was:
The sanctions aren't killing people fast enough nor driving out Saddam, so let's bomb them into 1500?
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Oil-for-food scandal...the fact that Russian, French and German interests were salivating to end the sanctions and take advantage of their relationship with the madman and his oil???
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How would this affect US security? Also, you'll get nowhere with me on crying about the sanctions being broken: all they did was kill innocent Iraqis. They were ill-conceived and wrong.
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| And that Saddam was paying money to suicide bombers in Israel? Bombers who killed, in addition to Israelis, people from over a dozen nations... |
Then we are justified in attacking Palestine, Iran, Afghanistan, Israel, Saudi Arabia, and many other nations.
Why aren't we? What made Iraq so special?
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| None of this could possibly influence an intelligent person's thinking on the issue in the intervening years? |
So Dick was thinking:
He's done so many bad things he's been doing for so long!! Suddenly, I just can't take it any more! He must go. Now! But, (snicker) let's blame him for 9/11, claim he has lots of bombs and chemical weapons. It'll be a laugh riot! It'll still be a quagmire, but who cares? The Mid-East is still the prize!
This is your defense?
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In a post 9-11 world (and btw, something people forget, Saddam's state run media was ordered to play celebratory music after the 9-11 attacks. As far as I know, the only government run media in the world to do so on tht day (unless the Taliban had a TV station?)
For this alone, IMHO, the invasion was more than justified. |
Damnit! You're right!! To hell with freedom of speech! To hell with sovereignty! They mock us? Kill them!
I suspect you and I will have little to discuss. I prefer rational discourse. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:08 am Post subject: |
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| Some think that the US has no right to force mideast regimes and eties to stop teaching hate , inciting violence funding Al Qaedia and planning terror. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Some think that the US has no right to force mideast regimes and eties to stop teaching hate , inciting violence funding Al Qaedia and planning terror. |
So, about Cheney's two faces on the quagmire... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:31 am Post subject: |
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could not contain Saddam and pressure Saudi on AQ at the same time.
Business as usual in the mideast was dangerous to the US. |
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keane
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
could not contain Saddam and pressure Saudi on AQ at the same time.
Business as usual in the mideast was dangerous to the US. |
You said that already. I find it an insufficient justification for the deaths of 100,000 to 700,000 human beings. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: |
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just another day wrote:
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| maybe he's just quiet nowadays because he's a puppet? |
Gee, now I'm confused, too. I thought leftists believe that Bush is Cheney's puppet? It's so difficult keeping up with leftist logic.
keane (sock of EFLT) wrote:
| Quote: |
| Got anything to say on the topic? That is, on Cheney's two faces on the issue and what changed so much between '94 and '03 in Iraq? |
Why, don't you know? Are you outside the loop? During that crucial period the Internet greatly expanded and Dave's ESL Cafe emerged as a leading site for those in the ESL/EFL profession. Mr. Sperling's influence became so widespread that it did not go unnoticed even by the Texas Mafia. The White House requested that out of deference to the VP, that his complete name, Dick Cheney, not be used on these forums. |
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