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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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 Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Grammar Experts |
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Which one is right? One of my little genius uni. students asked and I didn't know what to say. I'd probably say #1 if talking...but when writing???
1. In my bag, there is a book, hat and pens
2. In my bag, there is a book, a hat and pens
3. In my bag, there are a book, a hat and pens
4. Other? |
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BS.Dos.
Joined: 29 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| 4. In my bag, there is a book, a hat and some pens. |
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jay-shi
Joined: 09 May 2004
Location: On tour
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| 5. In my bag, there are some pens, a book and a hat. |
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Missihippi
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Location: Gwangmyeong
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: |
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There are some pens, a book, and a hat in my bag.
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:30 am Post subject: |
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My choice would be Number 3. There in this case refers to plural items and thus the verb should agree as to number. I would use that choice when either writing or speaking.
However, check this entry (usage note for entry 7):
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| The verb following there is singular or plural according to the number of the subject that follows the verb: There is a message for you. There are patients in the waiting room. With compound subjects in which all the coordinate words are singular, a singular verb often occurs, although the plural may also be used: There was (or were) a horse and a cow in the pasture. When a compound subject contains both singular and plural words, the verb usually agrees with the subject closest to the verb, although a plural verb sometimes occurs regardless, especially if the compound has more than two elements: There were staff meetings and a press conference daily. There was (or were) a glass, two plates, two cups, and a teapot on the shelf. |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| If the first item on the list is plural use 'there are', but if the first item is singular use 'there is a/an' |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Didn't read the post above yours, huh? |
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jay-shi
Joined: 09 May 2004
Location: On tour
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Didn't read the post above yours, huh? |
Hence my number 5 option. Follows usual grammatical rules and usage conventions.
What jinks mentioned is the grammatical rule usually being taught though. It doesn't break from your linked grammar rule, so it stands as valid IMHO.
The "The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged" is also very American. So it might simplify the English language and it's rules somewhat. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:43 am Post subject: |
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My linked usage rule clearly indicates that either plural or singular may be used. jinks made an absolutist declaration.
This bit
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| The "The Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Unabridged" is also very American. So it might simplify the English language and it's rules somewhat. |
is a ridiculous comment. American English is no more nor less complex than British English. It is merely different in some aspects. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Grammar Experts |
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| jlb wrote: |
Which one is right? One of my little genius uni. students asked and I didn't know what to say. I'd probably say #1 if talking...but when writing???
1. In my bag, there is a book, hat and pens
2. In my bag, there is a book, a hat and pens
3. In my bag, there are a book, a hat and pens
4. Other? |
Number 2.
Number 3 incorrectly uses a plural verb ('are') with a singular noun ('a book'). Number 1 drops the article in front of 'hat' implying that it is governed by the article in front of 'book' but thereby also implying that it governs 'pens', improperly.
For balance, it would be better to put 'some' in front of 'pens' also. |
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Hyeon Een
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:39 am Post subject: |
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There are lots of correct options. However this question has strayed (because I'm making it) into the realm of punctuation now. I'll offer you two mildly different but correct options:
In my bag, there is a book, an electronic dictionary, a hat, and pens
In my bag, there is a book, a hat, a sliderule and pens
So how do YOU feel about the Oxford comma? Do you detest it? Does it make you angry, furious and malcontent? Or do you delight in its perfect shape, helpful guidance, and form?
N.B. Top reading for all homosapiens: "Eats shoots and leaves" .. or is it "Eats, shoots and leaves"... I forget.. (by Lynne Truss)
(Any punctuation errors in this post must be ignored or I will kill you; and on the offchance you mention the use of MY Oxford comma, it was DELIBERATE YOU FERKIN IDIOT. So Don't bother. Muppet.) |
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jinks
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Location: Formerly: Lower North Island
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Didn't read the post above yours, huh? |
I did read it, but my version is more succinct and easier on the eye, don't you think? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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And the winner is
| Hyeon Een wrote: |
In my bag, there is a book, an electronic dictionary, a hat, and pens
...
So how do YOU feel about the Oxford comma? |
Oxford comma, hands down! |
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