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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:24 pm Post subject: Hollywood's Latest Anti-US Post-9/11 Film |
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I wish I could say Bill O'Reilly was wrong about Paul Greengrass' Bourne Ultimatum being an anti-American film, but I saw it last weekend and O'Reilly's right. It's not just that the script plays on opposition to Bush anti-terror tactics--waterboarding, etc. Or that in a moment of calm hero Matt Damon utters maybe 15 of the 40 words he speaks in the film and explains that he's simply trying to apologize for ... well, the CIA's sins, or maybe America's. Just because you oppose waterboarding and believe the U.S. has a lot to apologize for doesn't make you anti-American. The problem is the film is unredeemed by any sense that America or the American government ever stands for or does anything that is right. It is a big hit overseas. ...
The film also made me feel guilty, because I watched Greengrass' United 93 and left convinced it was a searing indictment of Bush's behavior in the hours after 9/11. (Air controllers spend much of the film trying to locate the AWOL President so they can obtain an order to shoot down the hijacked jet.) I didn't know anything about Greengrass, and the film looked like it had been based on actual records by a meticulously dispassionate observer. But Greengrass' Bourne film undermines his credibility and retrospectively dissolves United 93's anti-Bush power. I don't trust anything the man makes. ... P.S.: Has Big Hollywood made a single non-anti-US post-9/11 film I missed? I can't remember one (aside from Team America: World Police, which was a self-mocking puppet cartoon).. ... And don't say World Trade Center. That passed up several potentially epic patriotic moments (e.g. the Dave Karnes story) in favor of a soggy tribute to the fraternity of New York transit cops. ... Next up: In the Valley of Elah, a well-made version of the Scott Beauchamp Story. ... Is it the international market that makes our studios behave this way? I sense an underserved domestic niche. ... |
http://www.slate.com/id/2172537/#gloat |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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Critics like Chalmers Johnson loudly complain that Hollywood serves as the so-called military-industrial complex's propaganda organ. They cite films like Top Gun, Independence Day, Pearl Harbor.
In doing so they pretent that an entire class of films make their own fringe-based, anti-military-industrial complex, "Pentagon/CIA-operate-on-their-own-as-evil-'rogue-elephants'" arguments for them: Above the Law (many other Seagal films, for that matter), for example. The Good Shepherd. "The Bourne-Identity" films allege even worse.
Oh yeah, and this...
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| Is it the international market that makes our studios behave this way? I sense an underserved domestic niche... |
Bingo. American domestic politics played out with million-dollar casts and crew... |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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A movie has to
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| The problem is the film is unredeemed by any sense that America or the American government ever stands for or does anything that is right |
so as not to be anti-american?
Maybe its anti american government. That's not the same as being anti-american.
Last edited by JMO on Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone who agrees with O'Reilly and this line of thinking is a bonehead.
I was lucky enough to see the film in Manila 2 weeks ago and watch Bill Orally's rant about it and it is just bollacks.
SPOILER WARNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The end of the film shows how in the end the American system of checks and balances always works and defeats the corrupt beurocrats. Thats the message of the film.
As for all you right wing sycophants who live in dream land and fairytale world, the CIA does do bad things (renditions to foreign countries, torture, etc). For further proof of the CIA's foolishness check out the "Family Jewels" (also just released withing weeks of the film).
The best part of the movie was when they render (is that the correct verb usage????) an alleged whistle blower who was talking to a journalist. OMG the CIA would never do something like that. Except the very same week the Department of Defense finally let an al-Jazeera cameraman out of Gitmo after 4 years of no trial.
So in closing. The movie was great and Bill O'Reilly (and all those tools who listen to him and believe him) is still a douchebag, political hack with a serious inability to tell the truth. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Christ I didn't even notice O'Reilly in that article. People actually take what he says seriously..ridiculous. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Critics like Chalmers Johnson loudly complain that Hollywood serves as the so-called military-industrial complex's propaganda organ. They cite films like Top Gun, Independence Day, Pearl Harbor |
That's wierd. Whenever I think of movies that suck. I cite Top Gun, Pearl Harbour, and Independence Day. Really, that's a trio of terrible movies right there. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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They're entertaining movies. The first 2 at least. Heard the 3rd is supposed to be good too.
The dude is looking WAY too much into United 93. that movie was first rate and apolitical. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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9/11 and its aftermath, including the current Middle-Eastern wars, has polarized Americans, Bucheon. In such a highly-charged environment, some will object to things that others will not and vice versa.
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| The movie was great and... |
Joo: with this we can rest our case on the issue of the film's alleged antiAmericanist leanings. If it resonates with Octavius, then we need look no further...
We saw a hint of this, in any case, several weeks ago when the film's producers and director made the rounds to talk about it in the press. They attacked "James Bond" as a bad-guy who could do nothing without secret weapons, an imperialist, and a womanizer. Bourne, they said, by contrast, was a sensitive, good, man who loved his girlfriend -- and who stood up against the government and the CIA.
Sounds like a combination of hype and axe-grinding to me. In retrospect, I picked up not a little self-righteousness in their tone. In fact, sounds not unlike our friend Octavius's "NotAmericanism." Except in Bourne's case, it is "NotBondism." And that is why his initials are "JB," right...? |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice way to not speak to any of the facts Gopher. Have you been reading Rove's play book? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| Nice way to not speak to any of the facts... |
This is not about "facts," idiot. It is a bloody movie, remember? And have I been reading Karl Rove's playbook? Why should I read it? I wrote it, Octavius...  |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I know the Bourne movies are pretty faithful takes on the books.
So maybe the author is the guy you shoul be bitching about.
I still don't see how they are anti-american, no more than I can see that Top Gun is pro american. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
| I still don't see how... |
Maybe that is because you are unimaginative. That or stubbornly putting your head in the sand and refusing to see the politics of these films. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
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| Critics like Chalmers Johnson loudly complain that Hollywood serves as the so-called military-industrial complex's propaganda organ. They cite films like Top Gun, Independence Day, Pearl Harbor |
That's wierd. Whenever I think of movies that suck. I cite Top Gun, Pearl Harbour, and Independence Day. Really, that's a trio of terrible movies right there. |
You are right they were terrible films. Forrest Gump is an example of a pro US film that was also a good movie. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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I can see how Top Gun was aimed at least partly at the gay demographic, I don't see how it is pro-american. At least not pro american government.
As far as the Bourne movies I think it is a massive leap to say they are anti-american. What exactly does movie have to do to be anti-american? |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Yea Forrest Gump was a pretty good movie. I have to clarify that whilst Top gun did suck it comes so high on the unintentional comedy sale that it also rules. It might be one of the funniest movies ever made. |
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