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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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enns
Joined: 02 May 2006
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 Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know. If the only evidence is Coles yelling "They are cops" and one of them is wearing a common pair of boots from Canadian Tire, then how can we be sure they are cops? They acted strange, but which hippie protester doesn't? |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| enns wrote: |
| I don't know. If the only evidence is Coles yelling "They are cops" and one of them is wearing a common pair of boots from Canadian Tire, then how can we be sure they are cops? They acted strange, but which hippie protester doesn't? |
As they move forward, Coles and other union leaders dressed in suits order the men to put the rock down and leave, accuse them of being police agents provocateurs, and try unsuccessfully to unmask them.
In the end, they squeeze behind the police line, where they are calmly handcuffed.
Hippe protesters don't hide behind police lines to get "arrested".
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Meanwhile, a retired Ottawa police officer who was formerly in charge of overseeing demonstrations for the force said he questions who the masked men really are, after viewing the video.
"Were they legitimate protesters? I don�t think so," said Doug Kirkland.
"Well, if they weren't police, I think they might well have been working in the best interests of police."
He added that if the situation was as it appeared, he did not approve of the tactic. "It's pretty close to baiting," he said.
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RCMP have been involved in some highly publicized unscrupulous incidents lately (Ian Bush affair) so this wouldn't surprise me in the least. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| The meeting gives the sociology students something to do during the day. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, they were cops. 
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Last Updated: Thursday, August 23, 2007 | 7:52 PM ET
CBC News
Quebec provincial police admitted Thursday that three of their officers disguised themselves as demonstrators during the protest at the North American leaders summit in Montebello, Que.
However, the police force denied allegations its undercover officers were there on Monday to provoke the crowd and instigate violence.
"At no time did the police of the S�ret� du Qu�bec act as instigators or commit criminal acts," the police force said in French in a news release. "It is not in the police force's policies, nor in its strategies, to act in that manner.
"At all times, they responded within their mandate to keep order and security."
Police said the three undercover officers were only at the protest to locate and identify non-peaceful protesters in order to prevent any incidents.
Police came under fire Tuesday, when a video surfaced on YouTube that appeared to show three plainclothes police officers at the protest with bandanas across their faces. One of the men was carrying a rock.
In the video, protest organizers in suits order the men to put the rock down, call them police instigators and try unsuccessfully to unmask them.
Police-issued boots identified fake protesters
Protest organizers on Wednesday played the video for the media at a news conference in Ottawa. One of the organizers, union leader Dave Coles, explained that one reason protesters knew the men's true identities was because they were wearing the same boots as other police officers.
Coles said on Wednesday that the only thing he didn't know was whether the men were Quebec police, RCMP or hired security officers.
"[Our union] believes that the security force at Montebello were ordered to infiltrate our peaceful assembly and provoke incidents," said Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union.
Police said the three were told to monitor protesters who were not peacefully demonstrating to prevent any violent incidents, but they were called out as undercover agents when they refused to throw objects.
Concern Canada losing control of its energy
The protest at Montebello occurred outside the Fairmont Le Ch�teau Montebello hotel, near Ottawa, where Prime Minister Stephen Harper was meeting with U.S. President George W. Bush and Mexican President Felipe Calderon. The summit about border security, free trade and other issues began Monday and finished Tuesday.
Protesters said they gathered to voice their concern about Canada losing control of its energy and water resources and borders. Others decried what they called a high level of secrecy at the summit.
The Quebec provincial police will not comment any further on the affair, a spokeswoman in Montreal said.
Quebec Justice Minister Jacques Dupuis was made aware of the news, but a spokesman from his office said he will not comment on the matter either.
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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There's nothing surprising or unsuitable about undercover cops being at such a demonstration. Indeed, it's desirable. There's no evidence that they were inciting anybody to violence. In fact, it might've been the union agitator who was trying to rile up the crowd by shouting "Cops!"
Alias: I'm no fan of your politics but...Kudos! for your avatar  |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
| There's nothing surprising or unsuitable about undercover cops being at such a demonstration. Indeed, it's desirable. There's no evidence that they were inciting anybody to violence. In fact, it might've been the union agitator who was trying to rile up the crowd by shouting "Cops!" |
Actually they were walking to the front of the line with rocks in their hands. They just weren't monitoring.
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Alias: I'm no fan of your politics but...Kudos! for your avatar |
Everyone loves lesbians. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| By carrying rocks the police were posing. Nobody said they threw rocks-quite the contrary. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
| By carrying rocks the police were posing. Nobody said they threw rocks-quite the contrary. |
Watch the YouTube video.
They�re originally called out by the Union Leaders for having rocks in their hands and acting odd. So the Union Leaders say, �get the hell out of here, we don�t want that sort of foolishness at our part of the protest.� Soon, their odd behaviour starts making everyone that much more suspicious and part of the crowd starts chanting �Policier! Policier!�
Then the trio break the police line and are �arrested� and carted off.
They were first spotted when they appeared (by their actions) to have the intention to turn the peaceful protest into something more violent. It�s interesting, because if the mock-protesters had just dropped their rocks and moved on, none of this media-fiasco-in-the-making would have happened. Attention to someone who is trying to remain inconspicuous is not a good thing, so they panicked and naturally, instead of running, they gravitated toward the police line, because to them, that represented safety. It snowballed from there. To serve and protect indeed. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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If it weren't for your superb new avatar, I'd get nasty & really let you have it....
Again, NOBODY claims the cops threw any rocks...or were about to(unless you believe in champagne socialist fantasies). And "panic"?! Who says? A professional union agitator? Maybe the cops just figured it was time to go. Were you there? How does "panic" figure into the equation? |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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To me, this is serious stuff. It seems more than obvious that they were inciting violence and trying to get the crowd to do something.
I am sure that it has happened in the past and with much more effective results. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Most protesters you see holding rocks are about to hurl them. But I'm sure the police are now brain storming to come up with excuses.
The Quebec government will be pressured into launching a public inquiry which I anticipate will happen.
Anyway they got busted big time. Then to lie about it after the fact was even more brilliant. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
To me, this is serious stuff. It seems more than obvious that they were inciting violence and trying to get the crowd to do something.
I am sure that it has happened in the past and with much more effective results. |
The Supreme Court has ruled that Canadians have the right to peacefully demonstrate. If the police are acting to incite protestors to violence then they are acting outside their mandate are violating the rights of the people they are supposed to serve.
This smells of manipulation for political purposes, the same as the APEC misadventure. The arrogance that took over inside the PMO under Chretien has reappeared under Harper. There's a reason he's gone so far to prevernt public srutiny of his office and it's not for the benefit of Canadians. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
There's nothing surprising or unsuitable about undercover cops being at such a demonstration. Indeed, it's desirable. There's no evidence that they were inciting anybody to violence. In fact, it might've been the union agitator who was trying to rile up the crowd by shouting "Cops!"
Alias: I'm no fan of your politics but...Kudos! for your avatar |
I have no problem with cops infiltrating protest in order to determine who the violent instigators may be.
But I have a huge problem with cops infiltrating a protest on order to become instigators themselves.
And why in the hell are you defending or deflecting the cops actions?
If you look at the youtube video the cops were clearly instigating. One also clearly had a a rock in his hands which he claims was given to him by another protestor. 
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007/08/22/ot-police-070822.html
The Quebec provincial police admitted that the inflitrators were indeed cops. And protestors beside them said the undercover cops were trying to start something.
This is very concerning to me. And I still can't understand why you would attempt to defend their actons? |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 6:08 am Post subject: endo.... |
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Back home, I have been a harsh critic of police at municipal, provincial and federal levels. Well, I'm sure for different reasons than you would be but....
Bottom line: I'm not convinced that the police were directly trying to instigate violence. As for the sources cited to the contrary: please.... the CBC? CUPE? You may as well quote PRAVDA, c. 1975. |
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