Korean Job Discussion Forums

[SeoulShakin]

Yesterday I started teaching an English class for some advanced teachers at my district board office of education. It's a pretty good class, and the students are eager to have conversations, and have many questions.

At the end of the lesson, I divided the class in 4 groups, and gave each group a different situation. I asked them to discuss how the situation made them feel, what they would say, and what they would do about it. They had eager discussions in English, and it went over quite well.

Their lesson was all about introductions, either self-introductions or introducing someone to another person. One situation I gave to one of the groups was this:

You are on the subway, when you see someone reading a book that you just finished reading, and really loved. You would like to discuss it with someone else who read it. How do you feel, what would you say, and what would you do?

They said that they would simply politely ask the person if they are enjoying the book so far, and tell them that they just finished it and really enjoyed it. That would be their conversational opener. They all said they would feel excited about being able to discuss a good book with a fellow reader, and would like the chance to have an intellectual conversation.

I then changed the situation to as follows:

You are on the subway, when you see a foreigner reading a book that you just finished reading, and really loved. You would like to discuss it with someone else who read it. How do you feel, what would you say, and what would you do?

Changing one word lead to a completely different reaction. They said they would feel nervous and anxious about approaching a foreigner to discuss a book. They would be worried about using their English inappropriately, and sounding stupid, etc. This reaction is basically what I expected. Then I got another reason. One woman said that she fears speaking to foreigners she's never met, because she doesn't want them to feel like she is using them for a free English lesson.

I asked her to elaborate a little further, and she said one of her old co-workers once told her that sometimes she doesn't like being talked to on the subway or in taxis because she isn't a freebie. So now, this woman is afraid to talk to any foreigner, for fear that her genuine desire to just chat and meet new people will be misconstrued as an attempt for a free lesson. When she piped up with this, all the other teachers agreed and said that they feel the same way, but were too nervous to tell me this.

I told them that yes, sometimes being used for free English sucks. It's happened to me where a mother has said to her children "look a foreigner - say something to her in English". The kid says "I don't want to", and the mother forces them to. I told them this story, and said that yes, in that situation, I am not happy, and don't want to talk.

But I told them of other times, when a friendly person just starts pleasant chit chat and is genuinely kind, I will have a good conversation, and enjoy the talk. I explained that everyone can have a bad day, and want to be alone, but it shouldn't deter them from EVER talking to a foreigner. I said, if they are unsure, they should just make eye-contact first and give a genuine smile. If the person is receptive, then you can say hello. If not, to not be discouraged.

I felt bad. I knew that speaking English was scary for them, but I didn't know one of the reasons they are afraid to make the attempt for every day pleasantries (sp?) was fear of making US feel like we are being used.

Thought I'd share it with you all.

[Masta_Don]

I've never understood the 'every Korean who talks to me is using me for a free English lesson'. There's a lot to be gained, if you want to put it in those terms, with talking to Koreans about what to do and where to go.

The mother pushing the kid thing does bother me but that's only happened once. Ignored them both but felt sorry for the kid.

My dad's story about free English lessons is the best that I've heard:

He was here in 1985 serving in the US military. He and another soldier were off post and knew nothing about Hanguel. A Korean came up and started speaking to them in impeccable English. He was upfront about it all and said that he just wanted to practice his English with some native speakers. In return he'd take them out to a fancy restaurant. With the opportunity to get some insight into the local culture, which can be hard for some soldiers to do, they accepted. They went to a restaurant and chatted with the guy and ate and drank plenty. The guy excused himself to go to the bathroom. My dad and his buddy continued their meal and waited for him to come back. And waited. And waited. Of course he never came back and they got stuck with the bill. That's quite a swindle, twice a normal swindle, if you ask me.

[eamo]

Having someone practice their English on me in a bus/train/taxi is fine because my time is being consumed anyway by the journey. I may as well talk to someone................. Having parents of students make dinner appointments with me, bringing along their kids, then sitting back and not speaking to me, because they have little or no English, smacked heavily of using me as an English practice tool. But that has only happened once in seven years, and the Dad paid for dinner!! So no biggie there.

I'm on the subway and buses quite a lot but I would say I'm only approached for a conversation about twice a year. Koreans seem way to shy to talk to unkown foreigners in public. I can understand that. If I was in my home country studying Chinese, I don't think I would go up to Chinese-looking people and try to practice Chinese. I'd rather leave the guy alone.

[SuperFly]

But not all of us are English teachers, and after a 13-14 hour day at the office, the last thing I want is for someone to slide up next to me and say "Ooohh, you're reading Herotodus Histories eh? Great book, I liked the part about Cyrus and the expedition to Babylon!




Actually, in 8 months, not one person has ever bothered me on the subway. And if they did, whether or not I'd talk to them would depend on my mood. I almost always have my face buried in a book anyway.

[RACETRAITOR]

I'm on the subway for two hours each day. To spend my time purposefully I either write, read, or listen to audio books. It really does annoy me when people talk to me because I fall behind in productivity. But actually a few days ago a Korean man started talking to me and we had a very good, unpretentious conversation, in which religion was never mentioned. It all comes down to the individual encounter.

[SeoulShakin]

The thing is, with the book situation as an example, they said they would love to actually be able to discuss it, but would be afraid that we would feel used as a result. They said they have enjoyed meeting the foreign teachers at their public schools, and would like to meet more foreigners, but are afraid to approach us because of how we may react to them.

I tried to explain that we don't all bite, and that they shouldn't be afraid to approach us. Like I said, start with a smile and a friendly nod. If the person acknowledges with a smile in return, say hello. I feel bad now knowing that it's not just fear of their own inadequacy holding them back, it's a fear or making us feel used.

[jdog2050]

[SeoulShakin]

I tried to explain to them that it all depends on the situation, or what kind of day the person is having. If I'm having a bad day, of course I want to be left alone, just as any Korean person would want to be.

I thought the smiling to judge receptiveness was a good thing to tell them. I figure for myself, if I'm in a bad mood, or busy, or don't want to talk, I'll usually avoid eye-contact and look away. On the other hand, if I'm generally happier, I'll return the smile, and be more friendly. It all depends on my mood and the situation, like another poster said.

I just thought I'd throw it out there, that there are genuine people out there who are just interested in meeting us, but are afraid. I'll certainly be more aware now if a nervous but friendly looking person says hello to me....unless they have a bible jk jk.

[Alyallen]

[kermo]

I can sympathise with both sides here.

I have met Koreans who are utterly shameless in demanding my time and attention, like one businessman who asked me to explain the word "anemic" on the train. He didn't introduce himself-- he just waved the magazine under my big foreign nose and asked the question. I obliged.

I briefly explained the literal meaning first, and then I told him what it meant in context (something about Bush's policies in the headline of a Time magazine article.) He said "Oh! Weak! Why didn't you just tell me that!" and turned his back to me.
Good grief. I can do without that kind of presumptuousness and sense of entitlement.

I also feel creeped out when people say things like "I want to be your good friend because you are foreign/because I need to practise my English." My immediate response isn't "Sure, by all means, use me." I'd like to have relationships that are reciprocal and based on common interests, not because I have a different nationality or because I can give free "conversation lessons."

Finally, I'm leery of people here who sit down next to me and start chatting because so many times they have turned out to be missionaries who absolutely won't give up, ignoring polite refusals and more insistent rejection.

I've definitely had cool little chats with Koreans at bus stops or en route, and I appreciate being treated like a normal person, so I'd encourage Koreans to make conversation with foreigners under the same conditions they'd approach another Korean, I guess.

[SeoulShakin]

Yeah I think I got through to a group of about 15 today

I also gave them examples of what is appropriate small talk for a first time meeting in English.

I said that when you are speaking in English to someone for the first time, just after an introduction, there is an unwritten list of "safe topics" that we tend to stick to. Things like where are you from, the weather, sports ("did you watch the soccer game last night?), jobs, etc.

Then I proceeded to give them a list of inappropriate topics for small talk just after an introduction. These included religion, family dynamics, weight, eating habits, etc. I said the VERY personal questions are usually saved for AFTER a relationship has been firmly established. They laughed at my examples of conversations I have had in Korea, and seemed to fully understand.

To be fair, I also gave them examples of conversations I've had with Koreans, where I said things that could have been deemed inappropriate. They laughed at those too.

I think I'm going to like this class. It's a nice change from my elementary students.

[ajgeddes]

I have found that when someone talks to me on the subway, I really don't want to talk to the person and they are doing it to benefit themselves.

However, whenever someone talks to me on the bus, I feel they are being quite genuine and it is a good conversation.

I know this means nothing, but this is almost 100% of the time for me.

[kermo]

I had a class on ice-breakers today, and one well-meaning college girl had written "Hello! I want to be your good friend."

Gack!

I put it under the heading TOO STRONG. I also recommended against the question "Where do you live?" under certain circumstances.

[SeoulShakin]

I agree with where you would classify those as well.

The thing is, a lot of them are well-meaning, but don't fully understand how strong it comes across. To them, it's just friendly.

These 15 got it though, and by the end of the day could list off quite a few appropriate conversational starters. I think it helped that the majority of them had traveled abroad before, so were exposed to other cultures and experienced the English language first hand. There were still a few shocked faces when I gave them the list of inappropriate topics though.

Hopefully it helped.

[dogshed]

I've had really nice people chat with me.
I've had people help me, which is really nice.
I've had crazy homeless guys talk to me.
I've had religious nuts talk to me.

I would say it's about the same as Kansas City, MO.