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Iago
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Dunedin, NZ
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:33 pm Post subject: Blacklists/Whitelists for recruiters and schools???? |
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Hi, anyone know of any good blacklists and whitelists for recruiters and schools in South Korea.
All i can find are old dead end links with no sites at the end and this slow dial up connection isn't helping.
Been inundated with recruiters wanting to help and offering jobs. Be good to know who I am dealing with.
Cheers |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Blacklists/Whitelists for recruiters and schools???? |
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| Iago wrote: |
Hi, anyone know of any good blacklists and whitelists for recruiters and schools in South Korea.
All i can find are old dead end links with no sites at the end and this slow dial up connection isn't helping.
Been inundated with recruiters wanting to help and offering jobs. Be good to know who I am dealing with.
Cheers |
This is an EASY question to answer. Blacklists / whitelists are often not accurate or dead / out of date. There are a few like the hagwon checklist that are less out of date but not any more accurate.
http://www.hagwonchecklist.com/hagwons/index.php
In truth, take them with a grain of salt or DON'T believe any of them and do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.
In regards to recruiters - A recruiter is nothing more than an introduction to an employer.
Hello Mr. English speaker this is Mr Hakwon owner.
Mr. hakwon owner, this is Mr. English speaker.
Mr. English speaker, here is the contract. Please read and sign.
School, here is the signed contract. Pay me.
Good bye.
You are not paying them anything (or you shouldn't be).
THEY DO NOT WORK FOR YOU! - They work for the school.
They owe you nothing once you get here.
They are not your friend.
They are not your baby sitter.
They cannot help you if things go to *beep* after you get here.
Beyond that it is YOUR responsibility to check the school out.
Do NOT trust ANY recruiter. They are like used car salesmen. They will lie and sell their soul to get the signature on the contract.
Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE in regards to the school or get burned.
Use the recruiters for what they are. Use more than one and keep going until you get what you want. There is no rush and there is certainly no shortage of jobs.
When it comes to the school - again - repeat - Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.
1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...
The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.
No foreign staff references to talk to = walk away now.
Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.
The hard questions to ask AND get acceptable answers to ARE:
-What are the hours? (start time / stop time / breaks).
-How many classes per day, week, month? NOT hour many hours per month. 30 classroom hours can mean anything from 1350 -1800 minutes per week standing in front of the class. The difference can be up to 7.5 HOURS in front of the class EACH WEEK.
-Do they ALWAYS pay on time? (no=red flag 1)
-Do they pay at the end of your month or do they have a hold back period (5-10 days after your month end) to prevent runners? (no=red flag 2)
-Do they really pay overtime or avoid it with creative book keeping? (no=red flag 3)
-Do you get credit for classes on the national holidays or do you get the day off but still have to work your 120 hours before you get overtime? (no=red flag 4)
-Do they have national medical (with the little booklet)? (no=red flag 5)
-Do they pay into pension? (no=red flag 6) These two are legal requirements (not optional) and are usually NOT complied with (to your detriment).
-What about the holidays? 10 or more WORKING days? (legal requirement here) (no=red flag 7)
-When and how do you get your holidays?
-What extra stuff do you really have to do - mentioned or not in the contract.
-Then consider the quality of life issues - things that are important to you that aren't mentioned here (housing, furnishings, THE BATHROOM, access to recreational facilities, shopping, banking).
Do they take additional deposits in addition to the delay in payday? (yes=red flag)
I would also like to mention for comparison:
My co-worker who is a green as grass, fresh of the boat newbie gets a base salary of 2.1 mil per month for 22 classes of 40 minutes each.
She gets 20k won for each 40 minute class over 22 per week and works from 8:30-4:30 each day. She usually averages 26 classes per week and her salary works out to about 2.5 mil per month.
She also gets (as required by law and ignored by most hakwons) NHIC medical, pension, severance, non-shared housing, airfare and 4 weeks annual PAID vacation.
Do NOT be in a rush to sign anything. There is NO rush or urgency in spite of what your recruiter may tell you.
Take your time. The job (or more likely a better one) will still be there next week and probably next month too.
There are 30,000 openings in Korea each year and only about 25,000 applicants to fill those jobs each year.
I hope that has been of some help.
Last edited by ttompatz on Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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xeno439
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: Blacklists/Whitelists for recruiters and schools???? |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| Iago wrote: |
Hi, anyone know of any good blacklists and whitelists for recruiters and schools in South Korea.
All i can find are old dead end links with no sites at the end and this slow dial up connection isn't helping.
Been inundated with recruiters wanting to help and offering jobs. Be good to know who I am dealing with.
Cheers |
This is an EASY question to answer. Blacklists / whitelists are often not accurate or dead / out of date. There are a few like the hagwon checklist that are less out of date but not any more accurate.
http://www.hagwonchecklist.com/hagwons/index.php
In truth, take them with a grain of salt or DON'T believe any of them and do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.
In regards to recruiters - A recruiter is nothing more than an introduction to an employer.
Hello Mr. English speaker this is Mr Hakwon owner.
Mr. hakwon owner, this is Mr. English speaker.
Mr. English speaker, here is the contract. Please read and sign.
School, here is the signed contract. Pay me.
Good bye.
You are not paying them anything (or you shouldn't be).
THEY DO NOT WORK FOR YOU! - They work for the school.
They owe you nothing once you get here.
They are not your friend.
They are not your baby sitter.
They cannot help you if things go to *beep* after you get here.
Beyond that it is YOUR responsibility to check the school out.
Do NOT trust ANY recruiter. They are like used car salesmen. They will like and sell their soul to get the signature on the contract.
Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE in regards to the school or get burned.
Use the recruiters for what they are. Use more than one and keep going until you get what you want. There is no rush and there is certainly no shortage of jobs.
When it comes to the school - again - repeat - Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.
1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...
The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.
No foreign staff references to talk to = walk away now.
Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.
The hard questions to ask AND get acceptable answers to ARE:
-What are the hours? (start time / stop time / breaks).
-How many classes per day, week, month? NOT hour many hours per month. 30 classroom hours can mean anything from 1350 -1800 minutes per week standing in front of the class. The difference can be up to 7.5 HOURS in front of the class EACH WEEK.
-Do they ALWAYS pay on time? (no=red flag 1)
-Do they pay at the end of your month or do they have a hold back period (5-10 days after your month end) to prevent runners? (no=red flag 2)
-Do they really pay overtime or avoid it with creative book keeping? (no=red flag 3)
-Do you get credit for classes on the national holidays or do you get the day off but still have to work your 120 hours before you get overtime? (no=red flag 4)
-Do they have national medical (with the little booklet)? (no=red flag 5)
-Do they pay into pension? (no=red flag 6) These two are legal requirements (not optional) and are usually NOT complied with (to your detriment).
-What about the holidays? 10 or more WORKING days? (legal requirement here) (no=red flag 7)
-When and how do you get your holidays?
-What extra stuff do you really have to do - mentioned or not in the contract.
-Then consider the quality of life issues - things that are important to you that aren't mentioned here (housing, furnishings, THE BATHROOM, access to recreational facilities, shopping, banking).
Do they take additional deposits in addition to the delay in payday? (yes=red flag Cool
I would also like to mention for comparison:
I hope that has been of some help. |
This was one of the best posts I've seen regarding this issue. I wish I had seen similar before arriving 2 years ago. |
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Iago
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Location: Dunedin, NZ
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that Ttompatz. I figured as much. Just trying to narrow things down as much as i can.
I think I have come across one of your posts b4. I have those questions written down somewhere and found them V usefully.
Thanks again, that is the best piece of advice i have received so far. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Great post, indeed, but here's the clincher...
AFTER you do all of your due dilligence, and after you work all the kinks out of the contract, you can just smooth it out and wipe your arse with it.
The fact remains that in Korea, contracts are a starting point, and as employees, you are a expected to be flexible depending on the situation, and to support the needs of the employing organization. If you throw the contract up in their face every time you don't like something, you can kiss the relationship, and probably your job, goodbye.
Problems are usually cross-cultural in nature, not interpersonal. Having said this, the up side about having a decent contract is that it will cover your arse if and when you have to go to the labour board. |
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