Korean Job Discussion Forums

[marlow]

In Korea, it seems that if you're on salary your boss expects you to work overtime whenever asked, and definitely not for what would be normal overtime pay according to western standards.

The EPIK contract has overtime at 6,000 won per hour and 20,000 for a teaching hour. Both numbers are too low. Time and a half would work out to 30,000 per hour, teaching or no. Of course, time and a half has no meaning when you're on salary.

I'm just wondering if anyone knows what teachers in Canada and the States get for overtime. Parent-teacher interviews, weekend field trips, special programs, continuing education evening classes, et cetera.

[The_Conservative]

[marlow]

[MarionG]

As a teacher in the states I never received overtime. Showing up for game day on Saturdays, staying after school to help a student, none of these things were paid. They were expected, it's part of the job.

[MarionG]

Also, I make more here as a teacher than I did in the states, and that's before factoring in the low taxes and low cost of living here.

[The_Conservative]

[marlow]

[thegadfly]

Yeah, the extra meetings, parent-teacher night, detention duty, bus duty, lunch duty -- all part of the job, no overtime.

Coached soccer -- 3 hours a day (of responsible time -- have to set up and take down stuff, see that all the kids head out safely, game nights add to it, skipped practices take from it), five days a week, 16 weeks. Was paid a $2500 stipend.

16 times 5 is 80 times 3 is 240...so $10.41 an hour overtime.

Substitute teacher pay was $60 a day at the time, so $10 an hour.

Taught an after-school remedial class. 90 minutes a day, 5 days a week, 16 weeks. Was paid a $1500 stipend.

16 times 5 is 80 times 1.5 is 120. Class hours plus prep time plus paper checking (figure 1 hour per 3 hours of class) 160 hours. So, $9.38 an hour for overtime.

Teaching sux as a money-making gig, and it sux way way more in my home country. I put more money into savings in Korean than I ever would be able to in the US as a high school English teacher (not ESL teacher -- regular old English).

Face it, not only are folks here paid "just like real teachers," but are actually often paid BETTER than "real teachers" in the US. I'm not saying it is right or proper, just saying that it is.

[koon_taung_daeng]

yea but in America you get sweet holidays and benefits.If i was working for a public school in Korea i wouldn't work a minute of overtime unless i got the same benefits as all of the Korean teachers here.

[thegadfly]

I got a root canal and a crown done in the US under my school dental plan. The best plan offered -- Blue Cross/Blue Shield, $300 contribution a month on my end. My payments, out of pocket, for the root canal and crown were $3000 total. My wisdom tooth extraction (1) was $350. Antibiotics and painkillers (as prescribed) were another $120.

I got a root canal and crown in Korea under whatever normal plan any hakwan worker gets. I paid 55,000 won a month for my contribution. The amount I paid for the root canal and crown, out of pocket, was 600,000 won. My wisdom tooth extraction (1) was 7,000 won. Antibiotics and painkillers (as prescribed) were 3,500 won.

My "vacation" as a public high school teacher in the US was from the second or third week of June until the third week of August...so say 42 weeks of "school." I will ignore the required classes I had to attend over the summer in order to maintain a teaching position, the required in-services (2 or 3 week-long sessions a summer), and just count up the time.

In the US, teaching English, not counting extra classes with extra pay, I worked 60 (or more) hours a week for 42 weeks. 60 times 42 is 2,520 work-hours a year.

I teach at a hakwon, and with all my extra duties, prep, etc, I work about 40-45 hours a week most weeks -- say 43 -- for 46 weeks. 43 times 46 is 1,978 work-hours a year.

If you do not teach English in the US, or if you do not check papers or do any kind of real preparation, you may be able to get by on 40-45 hours a week instead of my 60. Simple math -- how quickly can you read a single paragraph, grade it with some kind of comment ("Nice!"), and record that grade in a gradebook? 20 seconds? Times 150-ish students, times 5 days a week. 250 minutes -- a little over 6 hours. To look at only a paragraph a day from each kid, write a grade, and only write the word "nice" on it.

Sick days were indeed very nice. I do wish I could feel better about taking my sick time here.

[yingwenlaoshi]

300 bucks a month for Blue Cross? Holy *beep*!

You make even more money here if you don't do any extra work. Just teach classes. I can't bring myself to do extra work because I'm not getting paid for it. Adult students that ask me to correct the e-mails they send me? I tell them that I'll look at it and get back them later. Never do except for the odd time I'll open it up on my computer at the hagwon.

I once "proofread" a speech for a woman adult student. She kept nagging me with e-mail messages. Was I getting paid for it? No. So I asked her if she was paying my boss or something because it was unusual to expect this of me. Didn't care that she has two sons at the hagwon. Because it's not MY hagwon. My livelihood does NOT depend on whether a parent is upset or disappointed with this or that. I'm paid to teach English within a set schedule for a set number of hours per day. I'm NOT getting paid to pander to extra needs to keep people happy so they don't take their kids out of the hagwon. I couldn't give a fk about that. I do the best job that I can while I'm teaching. Any extra time I have during my schedule where I'm not teaching is spent smoking, eating, drinking coffee, surfing the Intenet. NOT doing lesson plans and whatever else.

All work is done during class time. No photocopying. No reports. No lesson plans to hand in. No meetings.

Nothing.

[thegadfly]

Yeah -- when I carried Blue Cross/Blue Shield on my own (no benefits at my job at the time, and I knew I would be getting surgery), it was $600 a month...if I had taken the HMO offered by the employer at the time, I would only have paid $50 a month for my health plan, but I wanted Blue Cross/Blue Shield, as it had the best coverage and least hassle.

While I disagree with Ying's work ethic and attitude about teaching, I must admit he has a point. When I worked at McDonald's, they got my very best from the moment I punched in to the moment I punched out, but I certainly did not work the grill for even a minute when I wasn't punched in (well, to make my own specialty burgers, but we weren't even "allowed" to do that, so in theory, it never happened). McDonald's provided a job, and if they sold a few or a bazillion burgers, I could give a crap.

Personally, I put "teacher" in with doctor, nurse, and artist -- careers that ethically compel more than the bare minimum. In fact, I think to do less than your best in these careers is a disservice to society.

[tophatcat]

I�m in Korea because I like traveling and moving around in different cultures. Really!

I have taught in the U.S. The last year that I taught in the U.S., I lived basically like I�m now living in Korea. Meaning, I lived very economically sound. I could, and did, save just as much in the U.S. as I�m saving now. Often, I did put in a 40+ hour week. But, I had huge amounts of paid vacation time. I saved 17,000,000 won last year, in Korea. I saved $16,000 the last year I worked in the U.S.

I�ve worked in the hakwons and the publics in Korea. Living in Korea is overall satisfying.

However, I do plan to go back to the U.S. and teach. Teaching in the U.S. can be rewarding. It�s sort of like teaching in Korea in the sense of you must get in the right school and in the right location. The main reason I will go back to the U.S. and teach is that I just enjoy the opportunities that it provides me.

Just my 2-cents worth��..

[marlow]

Wow. Eye opening statements about teaching in the U.S. How about Canada? My impression was that in Canada the job benefits and vacation would make up for the extra work during the year.

Personally, I find that the pay in Korea just barely makes up for being away from my home country and the lack of a stable long term contract. Actually, the lack of a good retirement plan and pay raises for loyalty rather than inflation really hurt long term prospects for me in Korea. Another thing that gets me is the EPIK program asking for 6000 won overtime when I get asked about once a week to teach privately for 50,000 per hour.

[little mixed girl]

if you don't like it, then (as the old saying goes), why don't you leave?

teachers can't just "clock out" at 3:30.
if a student needs help, if lessons need to be prepared...these things take time.

you obviously can't expect korea to give you whatever you think you might get in the US or canada.

it sounds like you don't have a teaching degree, you can't even teach without a teaching degree in the US.

if you don't have any work to do, then don't stay overtime.
if you have something, stay.
simple as that.

if they want to get on your case about leaving before 6 or 7pm if you have no work, then tell them that you've prepared your lessons and checked your papers and you're set.