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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: Woman must be allowed breast pump in Harvard exam |
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Court Rules Woman Must Be Allowed to Pump Breast Milk During Harvard Doctor Exam
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298153,00.html
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BOSTON � A Harvard student must be allowed extra break time during her nine-hour medical licensing exam so she can pump breast milk to feed her 4-month-old daughter, a Massachusetts appeals court judge ruled Wednesday.
Sophie Currier, 33, sued after the National Board of Medical Examiners turned down her request to take more than the standard 45 minutes in breaks during the exam.
Currier said she risks medical complications if she does not nurse her daughter, Lea, or pump breast milk every two to three hours.
A Superior Court judge last week rejected Currier's request to order the board to give her an additional 60 minutes of break time. Appeals Court Judge Gary Katzmann overturned that ruling, finding that Currier needs the extra break time to put her on "equal footing" with the men and non-lactating women who take the exam. |
Excellent ruling. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| I find it ridiculous. She's already getting extra time for her various learning disabilities and she's already failed the test once. She wants to know why women can't have it all? I have an idea--wait before you get pregnant or wait until you're done breastfeeding to take the test. Sometimes we can't have it all. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| Atavistic wrote: |
| I find it ridiculous. She's already getting extra time for her various learning disabilities and she's already failed the test once. She wants to know why women can't have it all? I have an idea--wait before you get pregnant or wait until you're done breastfeeding to take the test. Sometimes we can't have it all. |
What is your problem. How does it hurt anyone at all if she spends an hour pumping her milk? Have you ever spent 9 hours without breastfeeding your child? Let me tell you, your breasts become swollen with milk and start to hurt like hell. Not only that, if she doesn't pump her milk in that time, her milk supply will immediately start to decrease, causing difficulties for her and her baby for the next few days. If she doesn't expel her milk for 9 hours, she also risks developing mastitis. My sister had this, and let me tell you, it is a horrible thing to have. It made my sister very sick. This ruling seems to me very reasonable.
Secondly, a lot of medical students fail their exam and have to retake it. This is not out of the ordinary. On top of that, if she was pregnant, or had a new baby when she took the exam, it is no surprise to me at all that she failed. I really struggled with the most mundane of tasks during that era. I was extremely fatigued and couldn't think straight.
Lastly, you want her to put her whole life on hold until she finished breastfeeding? That is just amazing! Is she just to consider herself a milk cow, with no other function, until her child is weaned? I am currently breastfeeding. Perhaps I should lock myself in a room until sometime in 2009? If only I had the luxury! Life is short, and we have to get on with it. We also need to have an income. She needs to get into the workplace and start earning for her family and her pension as soon as she can. Not hide herself in her house for 5 years while she has all her kids and breastfeeds them.
How old are you?! |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:29 am Post subject: |
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I found the ruling to be a bit strange. I don't understand why she can't have someone bring the baby to her during her hour break and feed her kid then.
But hey, she's a smart woman who managed to get what a Ph-D while having 2 kids back to back. It won't be making the world a better place to let an intelligent woman take the test, pass it, go onto medical research and perhaps find a cure for a disease.... |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| I thinkn in some professions, I would prefer students not to get special treatment. This one included. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:49 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
I found the ruling to be a bit strange. I don't understand why she can't have someone bring the baby to her during her hour break and feed her kid then.
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I don't quite understand. Before the ruling, she only had 45 minutes. That's not really enough for her to feed and also take a toilet break and rest.
Also, breastpumping would make much more sense than bringing the baby to the school. Better for the baby just to be at home with the carer, and feed when baby wants to feed. Not force baby to wait for a fixed scheduled break, or make baby feed in a time when he wants to sleep etc. Baby's can't be regimented like that. With breastpumping, she can just go and sit down and quietly express her milk, without the struggle of fitting 'babytime' into a fixed block of time. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| I thinkn in some professions, I would prefer students not to get special treatment. This one included. |
I don't see how allowing a mum to express her milk is getting over the top special treatment.
I take it you have never breastfed a baby thiophene? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:57 am Post subject: |
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http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/09/20/judge_no_extra_break_for_lactating_exam_taker/
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| "Half of medical students are women, and they are in their childbearing years," she said, "so the chances that at least one of their licensing exams will coincide with the time that they are breast-feeding is quite high." |
It takes years to train to be a doctor. These years may very well coincide with a pregnancy. Why is a woman supposed to forgo a bloody exam, when an hour to express her milk will make a big difference in her life, and absolutely no bloody difference to anyone else?
Breastfeeding is in many ways a difficult option. I've made many sacrifices with regard to my freedom, in order to give my little lads the best start in life. Shouldn't we be encouraging women to take this option? Isn't the health of the next generation important? We are only talking about one hours break (which I imagine would be cut into 2 half hours) so that a breastfeeding mum may take an exam without detriment to a small baby, or her own health. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
I found the ruling to be a bit strange. I don't understand why she can't have someone bring the baby to her during her hour break and feed her kid then.
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I don't quite understand. Before the ruling, she only had 45 minutes. That's not really enough for her to feed and also take a toilet break and rest.
Also, breastpumping would make much more sense than bringing the baby to the school. Better for the baby just to be at home with the carer, and feed when baby wants to feed. Not force baby to wait for a fixed scheduled break, or make baby feed in a time when he wants to sleep etc. Baby's can't be regimented like that. With breastpumping, she can just go and sit down and quietly express her milk, without the struggle of fitting 'babytime' into a fixed block of time. |
I'll take your word for it since I've never had to do any of that stuff. I do have another question. Couldn't she have pumped the milk before the exam or is the problem not getting the milk out during the 9 hours? |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| thiophene wrote: |
| I thinkn in some professions, I would prefer students not to get special treatment. This one included. |
I don't see how allowing a mum to express her milk is getting over the top special treatment.
I take it you have never breastfed a baby thiophene? |
No i haven't breastfed...yet...the thought frightens me...ouchie. But there's a reason the test is designed the way it is, why won't they change the format to shorter intervals and longer breaks for everyone? Then everyone's got an equal chance. And what's her hurry with the test? She can't go too long without an interuption, how can she expect to work? Unless she has a looming time restriction for the test (1-2 years), I think she should wait until she's capable.
I'm all for breastfeeding, huuuuuuge supporter, sooo thankful that my mom did it with me, but it shouldn't interrupt certain standards that have been carefully constructed. Sure a few extra minutes to a 9 hour exam isn't a travesty...but it's the principle. Where will it stop? How about when women are ovulating? Should men and women be allowed extra time to do the nasty? Or how about a nympho who can't stop touching themselves...should they be given extra masturbatory time? These are both natural human behaviours our society generally accepts and tends to revolve around. I don't know about you guys but I like my doctors to be at a certain level and if you can't cut it then too bad.
edit: beep=mastur batory...I cna't belive it's a beep  |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| thiophene wrote: |
| I thinkn in some professions, I would prefer students not to get special treatment. This one included. |
I don't see how allowing a mum to express her milk is getting over the top special treatment.
I take it you have never breastfed a baby thiophene? |
No i haven't breastfed...yet...the thought frightens me...ouchie. But there's a reason the test is designed the way it is, why won't they change the format to shorter intervals and longer breaks for everyone? Then everyone's got an equal chance. And what's her hurry with the test? She can't go too long without an interuption, how can she expect to work? Unless she has a looming time restriction for the test (1-2 years), I think she should wait until she's capable.
I'm all for breastfeeding, huuuuuuge supporter, sooo thankful that my mom did it with me, but it shouldn't interrupt certain standards that have been carefully constructed. Sure a few extra minutes to a 9 hour exam isn't a travesty...but it's the principle. Where will it stop? How about when women are ovulating? Should men and women be allowed extra time to do the nasty? Or how about a nympho who can't stop touching themselves...should they be given extra *beep* time? These are both natural human behaviours our society tends to revolve around. I don't know about you guys but I like my doctors to be at a certain level and if you can't cut it then too bad.
edit: beep=mastur batory...I cna't belive it's a beep |
To be fair, she isn't planning on going into medicine in the sense of hospitals and surgery. She wants to do research. So, in her case, I could see why the rule change won't actually "kill" someone later.
And your examples are ridiculous. Being a nympho is like being a breastfeeding mom? What are you smoking? |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
And your examples are ridiculous. Being a nympho is like being a breastfeeding mom? What are you smoking? |
Exactly, it is ridiculous.
And I've quit smoking any contrabands in preparation for my stint in Korea...perhaps the absence of said fun is making me go crazy? |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| thiophene wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
And your examples are ridiculous. Being a nympho is like being a breastfeeding mom? What are you smoking? |
Exactly, it is ridiculous.
And I've quit smoking any contrabands in preparation for my stint in Korea...perhaps the absence of said fun is making me go crazy? |
Perhaps...You'd be a far better judge of your sanity (or lack thereof) than I. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/09/20/judge_no_extra_break_for_lactating_exam_taker/
| Quote: |
| "Half of medical students are women, and they are in their childbearing years," she said, "so the chances that at least one of their licensing exams will coincide with the time that they are breast-feeding is quite high." |
It takes years to train to be a doctor. These years may very well coincide with a pregnancy. Why is a woman supposed to forgo a bloody exam, when an hour to express her milk will make a big difference in her life, and absolutely no bloody difference to anyone else? |
And yet she seems to be the first who can't figure out how to make it work for one test?
Yeah, put the test on hold. Is this test given only once a year? Really, truly? I doubt it.
If she were nine months pregnant and about to pop would she demand to take the test or would she put it off? If some poor sap gets the flu the day before the test, will they suddenly get extra time?
Life is CHOICES. She chose to have a kid. Unfortunately for parents--women especially--having a kid changes your life. Isn't that one of the glories of parenthood that parents always wax about? Why is it that parents want to suck up all the good of parenthood and somehow ignore the rest?
And just because I disagree with you, BigBird, doesn't mean I have a problem. Or, of it does, then you have the exact same problem for disagreeing with me. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Don't question Big_Bird. She'll label you sexist and, possibly, label you the cause of giving some poor girl an eating disorder. |
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