Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[brandychen49]

"There is / are no fish in the river."

When we use is or are, is there difference?

Please help me figure out. Thanks.



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my blog: http://www.wretch.cc/album/brandychen49[/u]

[Bob S.]

[el7jake]

Appreciated your examples, but should it not be the reverse of what you said? There is no fish means singular doesn't it? There is no (one/single) fish in the river to eat the vegetation. There are no fish to catch--there aren't any fish there, no?

[Philo Kevetch]

Unless, of course, you are cleaning your catch on the bank of the river and happen to find a Park Warden looking over your shoulder...at which point you say, 'There is no fish in the river'. (In some places it's illegal to discard waste into the river.)

[2006]

[lotus]

Hi,

The tale of two fish continues...
http://teacherseducation.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/grammar-wednesday-54/

A more academic discussion corroborates her point of view (pp 5-6, 8-9).
http://www.unm.edu/~wcroft/Papers/Count.pdf (PDF)

From correspondence to fish...
http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.php?id=1375

Empty morphemes and idiosynchracies...
http://www.painintheenglish.com/post.php?id=42

There are no fish in this river. (by itself, with no other context)
This river has no fish.

Although they say there's plenty of fish in the sea, there's no fish in the ocean for me.
Although they say there's plenty of fish in the sea, there's (not a single fish) in the ocean for me.

Equally valid, but not as fluid;

Although they say there are plenty of fish in the sea, there are no fish in the ocean for me.
Although they say there are plenty of fish in the sea, there are no fish (to choose from) in the ocean for me.


Fish tales can have many endings...


--lotus
_________________
War does not make one great --Yoda

[brandychen49]

I got it.
Thanks a million.^^



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
my blog: http://www.wretch.cc/album/brandychen49[/u]

[rice07]

Hi

Here I quoted a newspaper article talking about 'Researchers find that fish are able to count to four' in the following, even when we(meas me included) non-native speakers were confused about which one on earth is correct( There is/are no fish ... ). This article, however, seems irrelevant to the question's answer, it is something like information for reference. Hope knowledge enriches our lives.

Researchers find that fish are able to count to four

Pythagoras, Euler and Fermat may not be nervously twitching in their caskets just yet, but the uniqueness of humankind's mathematical abilities has taken yet another knock from the animal kingdom. Fish are able to count to four, according to experiments which involved giving them the option of joining shoals of different sizes. Their numerical abilities is on a par with that of monkeys, dolphins and children aged between six months and 12 months.

"We have provided the first evidence that fish exhibit rudimentary mathematical abilities," said experimental psychologist Christian Agrillo of the University of Padova in Italy.

MOSQUITOFISH

His team investigated the behavior of mosquitofish. The freshwater species -- also known as the live-bearing tooth carp -- is originally from North America but was introduced into Europe nearly a century ago. To deduce whether the fish have a head for figures, the team made use of the fact that females who are being harassed by a male will bolt for the largest nearby shoal for cover.

In their experiment, the test fish is in a central tank separated from two side tanks containing shoals of different sizes which it can see. When harassed it will go towards the larger one, even though it cannot actually join the fish there.

FOUR AND UNDER

The researchers showed that the fish could distinguish between shoals containing one or two fish, two or three fish and three or four fish. They could not tell the difference between shoals of four or five.

At larger numbers the difference between the shoals has to be bigger for the fish to make a meaningful choice. A ratio of 1:2 is high enough, such as the difference between eight and 16 fish in a shoal. But when the difference is smaller, such as 12 to 16, the fish do not show preference.

"We suggest that mosquitofish use two distinct systems for quantity discrimination," the team wrote in journal Cognition.