Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

[qwals]

Hi
I'm a high school student.
People focus on the Iraq War....
Now I also focus on the Iraq war.
I watched wounded Iraqis. and the people against the war on TV.
I have the same opinion with them.
Bush and his gorverment must stop attacking the Iraq, I think.
What do you think of this War?
[/quote]

[Norinko]

Hi!
I am a colleage student in Japan.
Everyone thinks man must not kill each other.
Right then, why does war happen??
I aiso think war is wrong.
But actually there are many penple who are fighting with haveing mind of thier own.
So I cannot say the war is wrong lightly.
Thing I want to say is that war can be happen by only one country,but peace can not be materialized by onry one country.
I pray to be peaceful all over the world.

[Shac]

hi everyone:
in my opinion, i think it's nothing but another show put by the US to demonstrate its great almighty power to the rest of the world. as the world police, the US should know what it is doing and what it has done there as well as to the world. although there was a strong opposition to the strike and determination of no war from the other countries, the US still commanded a large-scale attack on this innocent terrain. even after the war ended, still there are a lot of unsolved questions bothering the world, how come Bush's been insistent so much on the war even under such great pressure and subjection, and since the world would say no to this move, why the US still demanded this big action.
the oil conflictions.
by this war, the US not only showboated its weapons, its insermountable capability at war but secured its share in the control of oil. now, one way or another, the US has had a greater and better command on the performance and oil-transportation in this region.
with a slogen of removing the world thread from Iraq, maybe the next world damonater would do a better job!!!
_________________
we prepare for the best and conquer the worst.

[Diana]

If the US had really wanted the oil, it would have been easier to lift the sanctions in Iraq rather than to go through a costly war. Besides, the US was already trading oil with Iraq through the oil-for-food program, and they didn't need more oil. They had more than enough to sustain themselves. The US imports a majority of their oil from Canada, Mexico, and Venusuela. The US imports approximately 20% of oil from the Persian Gulf. If the United States feel that they need more oil, they could always open up drilling in Alaska's natural habitat. Drilling in Alaska would still have been cheaper than waging a war in Iraq especially when they are already trading oil from Saddam through the oil-for-food program.

[Shac]

that's right, the US has had enough oil and it's just a piece of cake for it to secure any further oil merchandise in any lot of land. but why? why went all this trouble just to get the oil that is no necessary to restore? In disguise of oil, the US permeates its affect and influence through this war-ravaged region, looking like the Turky is still in control as the big brother in the middle-east after the fall of Sadam Hussein's regime in Iraq, while actually it's the US that takes the lion's share in everything including the never-discovered program--- the secret weapon program.
just to play it around, the US can do the justice, showcase the power, gain the support from other countries, and penetrate into the stable stance as an underworld leader behind all these well embellished substerfuge.
_________________
we prepare for the best and conquer the worst.

[Diana]

The September 11th attacks changed America. If these terrorist attacks had not happened, Saddam would still be the ruler of Iraq. The US wanted Saddam out for several reasons:

1. Saddam supports terrorism. Although he is not involved with Osama Bin Laden or the 911 attacks, Saddam is involved in terrorism. Al-Queda is known to cross paths with many different terrorist groups including the ones Saddam is involved in. Therefore, it would only be a matter of time before Al-Queda gets a hold of weapons of mass destruction or documents on how to build weapons of mass destruction. These documents are known to be around Iraq including in scientists homes.

2. Saddam has been in violation of UN resolutions for 12 years. After more than a decade of inspections, negotiations, threats and sanctions, no credible alternative remained, and Saddam had made it clear that he was not going to comply. The US believed that Saddam has these weapons of mass destruction - weapons that may fall into terrorists hands. Also, asking Saddam to cooperate in cracking down on terrorism is not going to happen since he himself supports terrorism.

Terrorism strikes at weaknesses, not strength. This is shown in its habit of attacking civilians rather than uniform armies. Osama Bin Laden had written before 911 of his belief that the US lacked the will to fight. He cited our quick retreat from Somalia when things got ugly, and the impotent guestures when Clinton sent cruise missiles into Afghanistan and ran away after the USS Cole was struck. Bin Laden thinks that a spectacular terrorist attack would destroy the confidence and spirit of the American people, and lead to our destruction. He never expected our all-out attack in Afghanistan, and taking out the Taliban and Al-Queda forces.

Now that the US is taking terrorism seriously, they have gone after terrorist organizations in the Middle East to neutralize the destabilizing threat to the region and to vital US interests posed by Saddam. They are working together with other muslim countries in the region and in Africa to destroy terrorism.

[obelix]

It is interesting that since the USA has demonstrated its willingness to used force in the Middle East the Palestinians and the Israelis are closer to peace.
If the Americans bring stability and peace to the region, it will have been worth it.

[Nemesis]

[quote="Diana"]The September 11th attacks changed America. If these terrorist attacks had not happened, Saddam would still be the ruler of Iraq. The US wanted Saddam out for several reasons:

All you've done in your post is parrot the US Elite Regime's propaganda. Shame on you.

OBLaden had nothing to do with WTC Towers, except be a scapegoat.

The Elite Elite Regime demolished the WTC to secure American and world support their a "war on terrorism" a war that "will not end in our lifetime." [cheney]

Sounds incredible doesn't it? President Roosevelt knew that Japan was going to bomb Pearl Harbor and did nothing. So the tatic is not new. The Elite Regime then went in and attacked and bombed Afghan to build a pipe line to Pakinstan to bring Caspian oil to the gulf.

Then it bombed and attacked IRaq for the oil.

What is needed is a Regime change in America, not Iraq or Iran, or N. Korea.

BTW: Most civil and constitutional rights in the States have been trashed all in the name of fighting terrorism.

wake up.

Seen Rense.com and http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ www.serendipity.li/wtc.html

[Diana]

The authorities have already obtained the black box aboard the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center. In the black box, they could distinctly hear the terrorists praising Allah for their deeds. This is clear evidence that the terrorists aboard those planes were muslims. There were video cameras obtained identifying some of the terrorists as well as other passangers. The authorities were able to obtain their vehicles and found letters and documents written in arabic. These letters and documents were later translated and all pointed to what the terrorists had done.

Now, you are telling me that it was our own government who did this? What proof or concrete evidence do you have other than some propoganda news article that couldn't even make the national headlines?

Our constitutional rights and civil liberties have been trashed because many people don't care to take any responsibility where their rights are concerned. They are more concern about their rights rather than their responsibilities. In other words, they care about their right to bear arms, but they never take their responsibility seriously in keeping their guns away from their young children, which is why the youth violence in America is extremely high - higher than any industrialized nations in the world. If more Americans would take their responsibilities seriously, then you wouldn't have the government coming in passing laws on gun control or even trying to keep the youths from obtaining violent movies through censorship. It is this same lack of responsibility that allowed 19 terrorists to enter the United States and board American planes to do what they did.

[Nemesis]

[quote="Diana"]

1. The authorities have already obtained the black box aboard the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center.

2. The authorities were able to obtain their vehicles and found letters and documents written in arabic. These letters and documents were later translated and all pointed to what the terrorists had done.

3. What proof or concrete evidence do you have other than some propoganda news article that couldn't even make the national headlines?

1. Why weren't the recordings of the black boxes made public then?

2. How do you know they weren't planted their by the authorities? Why didn't the "authorities" know anything about the demolition of the WTC before hand but they had names of alleged 19 hijackers within hours of the attack?

3. Just because the major news media doesn't report something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Why did the investigation into 911 take over a year to commence, [space shuttle only weeks] and the Government agencies are stalling and blocking the report? And 1/10 of the space shuttle money for the investigation yet 3000 people killed compared to 6. Think about it.

Do your own search in Google. type in World Trade Center Demolition. many sites there.

[Diana]

CNN was able to get a partial transcript of the blackbox obtained in the Pennsylvania crash.

http://www.thenewsmexicochannel.com/news/956289/detail.html

The names of all passangers aboard those aircrafts could always be obtained from the airlines. It is only though the airlines that one can actually get an accurate list of all passanger names, so why worry about the deomolition of the World Trade Center? It was discovered that two of the men aboard the crashed airplanes were also wanted men by the CIA. They were wanted for the bombings of the USS Cole. Furthermore, victims from the fourth plane that crashed into Pennsylvania DID managed to call through their cell phones about the hi-jacking, giving authorities a better view of the hi-jackers. So, even if you believe that the Koran and arabic suicide letter were planted by the CIA, one cannot dispute the calls made by the victims aboard that fourth aircraft. Also, one cannot dispute the other Arabs arrested and interrogated by authorities in Germany, France, and Italy. All the interrogation seemed to point directly to muslim terrorists, and these interrogations were not made by the US government but the governments of those countries.

As I said, what concrete proof or evidence do you have that supports your claim other than the propoganda news article you posted that can't even make national headlines?

Why did it take about a year to investigate the 911 attack and only a week for the space shuttle? The investigations into 911 had started the day the planes crashed. Former President Clinton didn't even have any doubt that it was Osama Bin Laden who bombed the USS Cole and the US embassies in Africa, which was why he sent cruise missiles into Afghanistan during his administration. Unfortunately, that is all Clinton did - only sent cruise missiles to kill Bin Laden. The problem - those cruise missiles missed. After investigations into the 911 attacks, Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda gang was once again linked to the attacks.

[Nemesis]

[quote="Diana"]CNN was able to get a partial transcript of the blackbox obtained in the Pennsylvania crash.

Reply: The partial transcript only revealed what the "authorities" wanted us [you] to hear. What about the other 3 boxes?

The names of all passangers aboard those aircrafts could always be obtained from the airlines.

Reply: If the "authorities" didn't know anything about the hijacking ahead of time, how did they know THOSE 19 were involved, and how did they know so soon? They didn't. The authorities had it all planned out ahead of time. And went on a propagand campaign immediately and you bought it hook line and sinker.

so why worry about the deomolition of the World Trade Center?

Because the US government killed it's own people thats why. How is that different than Hussein?

It was discovered that two of the men aboard the crashed airplanes were also wanted men by the CIA.

Repy: That's what the CIA says. Where's the proof?

Furthermore, victims from the fourth plane that crashed into Pennsylvania DID managed to call through their cell phones about the hi-jacking, giving authorities a better view of the hi-jackers.

Reply: The Penns plane was shot down. It didn't crash. Also, where are the bodies? There were none. Why not?

one cannot dispute the calls made by the victims aboard that fourth aircraft.

Reply: How do you know they were made from that aircraft? And if you listen to them carefully, they have discrepancies. Check the web sites under World Trade Center demolition in a Google search.

www.serendipity.li/wtc.html Very eye opening.

Reply: There's been no PROOF whatsoever. It's all conjecture.

As I said, what concrete proof or evidence do you have that supports your claim other than the propoganda news article you posted that can't even make national headlines?

Reply: Just because something doesn't make national headlines dosen't mean it didn't happen. You are too young and naive to understand that yet. The media is own by a very few people who benefit from keeping you ignorant.

The investigations into 911 had started the day the planes crashed.

Reply:The "Official" investigation didn't start for over a year.

"After investigations into the 911 attacks, Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda gang was once again linked to the attacks."

Reply: There has been no concrete link between OBL and the WTC. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. He even claims he had nothing to do with it.

You mention the Europeans. 30% of Germans polled think the US government was involved in the WTC Demolition.

Wake up and stop acting like you know it all. You don't.

[Nemesis]

Additionally:

1. How do you explain the millions of dollars made in the selling of an unusually disportioned number of put options sold by those with obvious prior knowledge?

2. How do you explain that the 100 story Twin Towers collapse as if they WERE demolished? You don't really believe that those two relatively small fires brought down those two concrete and steel buildings do you?

3. What about the seismic activity that appears to point to demolition explosives being placed and exploded?

4. How do you explain the third WTC building that collapsed? It was even hit nor was there a fire in it and yet it collapse just like the twin towers.

5. How do you explain that not one Air Force jet was sent up to intercept the four alleged hijacked planes, even though they had 90 minuntes to do so? Hint: they were told to stand down.

6. How do you explain the reports from firemen who survived who said they heard explosives in the lower parts of the building prior to their collapse?

7. How do you explain that President Bush said he saw the FIRST plane hit the tower before he went into the school room in Florida? The first plane video {the Fireman's Video] wasn't aired publically until 48 hours after the second plane hit? Bush said he saw it on TV. How could he? [He was watching a private sat. link in his limo, that's how.]

8. I could go on and on.

The US Elite Regime demolished the WTC to get American and world support behnd their war on terrorism.

And then the Regime attacked Afgha and Iraq for oil.

[obelix]

No actually, you can lay it all at the door of the Wahabbi brand of Islam which flourishes in Saudi Arabia and is financed by Saudi Oil dollars.
But feel free to display your paranoia to the world.

[Diana]

Nemesis, so far you have only asked questions and not offered any concrete proof of your claim. It's obvious that you don't believe the President, the CIA, FBI, the authorities the evidence presented (such as the money trail, witness testimonies, arabic letter, etc.), or even what the loved ones of those victims on the 4th plane that crashed say when they gave their last farewell calls. But then what makes you believe everything in that website you posted? Did you look at the source of this website to determine their objectivity?

I took a look at this website you posted that claims to tell nothing but the truth, and this is what I found out. The following below is what I copied from their homepage.

"Mostly this Serendipity website is a libertarian, anti-fascist, anti-war, anti-Zionist and anti-prison-planet website, asserting the natural right of people everywhere to pursue their lives free from harmful childhood conditioning and free from exploitation and domination by political movements which seek to enslave them and from repressive authoritarian governments, rapacious capitalist corporations, fraudulent religious organizations and the unholy alliance among all of these which works to deprive the common people of all nations of their freedom, health, happiness and the full realization of their spiritual potential."

The ones in quotes is what I copied off the homepage of this website. As anyone can see, it is all one-sided. It is not even an objective website because it is (as it says) anti-fascist, anti-war, anti-Zionist, and anti-prison! Everyone knows that an OBJECTIVE WEBSITE would always be neither ANTI- NOR PRO - ANYTHING! An objective website would always be looking for the truth and not be against or for anything. And so far, this website has a lot to say and even questions about the 911 attacks, but nothing to back up their speculations.

Another thing that I found hypocritical about this website you posted is that in its homepage, it says that it works to get rid of all fraudulent religious organizations that seeks to deprive people of all nations of their freedom, health, happiness, and the full realization of their spriritual potential. Well, Nemesis, it seems that the people who support this website find even the Christian religion fraudulent. What's more is that this website seeks to brainwash people into believing in THEIR OWN brand of religious thinking. Who are they to tell anyone that some of our religious beliefs are in error or wrong and theirs (and only theirs) is the right one? And this is the website (Serendipity) that you think is telling the truth?

http://www.serendipity.li/god.htm

So far, everything in the website you posted for me are the author's opinions on what happened at 911, but he offered no substantial evidence to back up what he says. In fact, he even disputes what the experts say. This website is clearly telling us that we are not to believe what the experts say. So, what makes them better and more knowledgeable than the experts?

According to the article you posted, the author stated, "The North Tower was hit first, at 8:45 a.m. The plane (or some object, not necessarily a large passenger jet) hit the tower directly, in the center, and a huge explosion immediately followed the impact." According to this statement, the author is actually implying that the first tower was not hit by a passenger plane but some other object that he doesn't even care to mention. There are videos, photos, and witnesses who saw two planes hit the two buildings, and the author in the serendipity website is saying that it's some other object and doesn't even mention what that object is?

Furthermore, your serendipity website claims that the pentagon was not even hit by a plane and even showed pictures of the pentagon with no plane. What the serendipity website did not show you is that there are indeed pictures of the plane hitting the Pentagon. Security cameras at the Pentagon actually caught the plane hitting the building, and this was published in CNN, NBC, and MSNBC. There is even a twisted debris from the plane shown on Picture #13 in the second weblink.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/720851.asp
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon_20020316.html