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ieltsinsider
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 170
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 Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: Bin Laden |
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Clarissa - Actually, a lot has been written about Osama Bin Laden's motivation to commit terrorist acts. I read a really interesting article on him yesterday. I'll try and find it again.
As for the roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict - oh, boy, that's a big one!!! I'm sure you can find info online. Be sure to look at each side's viewpoint, so you can see where the conflicts arise. |
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k.m.m
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| knowledge2006 wrote: |
| ClarissaMach wrote: |
Just take a look at Knowledge2006�s posts, for example: although he�s a strong defender of his ideas, at any moment he committed personal offenses. Instead of being rude, he brought us information that back his point of view. Even if one doesn�t agree with his ideas, he/she is obliged to respect them. |
Yes,I'm muslim and of course Islam forbiddens insulting anybody whether he is muslim or not even if he insulte you,You'd better be tolerent and asks God to forgive him..I'm pretty sure that Mr. Mehrezsassi was completely wrong when he said these bad words and it's not a behaviour of a muslim that understands correctly his religion..But as we are here to discuss -politely-the causes not to cry on the consequences"I'm sorry for borrowing your expression Clarissamach".I'd like you to think why did he say that?.I myself don't know exactly what it his reason.But let's guess..May be he is angry about the situation in the middle east now,May be he feels to be oppressed and can't find any way to get rid of this feeling except insulting any foreigner..
Another thing which is related to this matter,All the time I hear you saying terrorists,terrorists but I have never heard somebody saying why they became terrorists(as you call them),I don't think that there is one person who was born hating America or England,Of course not.But I think there is an exterior thing brings this feeling..Just try to imagine a young palestanian boy who was born finding his country occupied,Would he love Israel??A young lebanese girl who doen't know neither Hizbullah nor Israel but found that she lost her family,Would she hope the good for Israel??Unfortunately No..That exactly what causes hatred.The wrong policy of some countries brings about this feeling then comes terrorism(as you call it).
I'd like to tell you a simple thing,Our prophet Mohamed Peace be upon him made treaties with jews and when?1400 years ago,before any european or American thought of that.
Everyone likes peace and what you call terrorism is a result not a cause.. |
I agree with you 100%..
I just want to add that "we have to think who got benefits from terrorist attacks and bombing?? ...Arabs NO..
Muslim NO...
If No....then WHY?? |
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ieltsinsider
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: spot on k.m.m. |
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| k.m.m. - Yes, yes, yes!! Who is benefitting from terrorism? As you say, certainly not the average Muslim. Islam is a decent religion and 99% of Muslims are wonderful people. |
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k.m.m
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: Re: roots of terrorism |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
Knowledge2006 is absolutely right. (Did I just type that!?) Terrorists are not born, they are made. As Clarissa pointed out on another post, kids are often incited to hate others. Knowledge2006 correctly points out that countries' foreign policies also create the problem.
Terrorism is far more common than is assumed - and has been thoughout history. The book "An Anatomy of terror" by [too lazy to check his name, but you can find it on the net] is a well-written history of terrorism.
I'm not sure I agree that terrorism is the weapon of the weakest, although I understand that that is the prevailing view. Many terrorist groups have sophisticated and expensive weapons - Hizbollah has been using drones in its fight withg Israel, for example. Others have quite large 'armies' - again, Hizbollah has 3000+ soldiers and Columbian groups may have 10,000+.
'Terrorism' simply defines the way they fight. The idea is to make people afraid. For example, the bombings in London were a complete failure from a terrorism point of view. I know they were successful in killing many people, but that it not the core aim of terrorism. The aim of terrorism is to make people afraid to go about their everyday lives. By simply going to work (on the underground!) the next day, Londoners defeated the aim of terrorism. With Hizbollah, the true aim is not to kill Israelis, it is to make those living near the Lebanese border completely afraid to go out of their homes. In other words, create 'terror'.
Terrorism wins when people allow it to. Terrorism cannot win on its own. |
Agree .... |
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k.m.m
Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 1:33 am Post subject: Re: spot on k.m.m. |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
| k.m.m. - Yes, yes, yes!! Who is benefitting from terrorism? As you say, certainly not the average Muslim. Islam is a decent religion and 99% of Muslims are wonderful people. |
This is the politics ...and terrorism is the dirty game of it ...
using religion for the politics as a cover to brain wash the young and uneducated people in one side ...and on the other side getting help and trained by others want bad things for you as Arab or Muslim �
Does that make sense ...it is an equation may be hard to solve but may be close the truth�
take care.. |
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flying_pig319
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: |
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Ah. Couldn't quite understand Knowledge's post the first time, but after so many agreements and explanations, I also agree 100%.
Terrorism is the result of instilling hatred in others-- it's SOCIETY's fault, and it's stoppable.
Sadly, most people don't realize this (that WE can stop it just by our view of the world), and this ignorance will in turn lead to...
Yeah.
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flying_pig319
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:38 am Post subject: Re: Bin Laden |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
| As for the roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict - oh, boy, that's a big one!!! I'm sure you can find info online. Be sure to look at each side's viewpoint, so you can see where the conflicts arise. |
Read my "Here's what's happening in the Middle East" thread, if you wish.
It's mostly basic info, but that's pretty hard to find in the WWW.
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ClarissaMach
Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Bin Laden |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
Clarissa - Actually, a lot has been written about Osama Bin Laden's motivation to commit terrorist acts. I read a really interesting article on him yesterday. I'll try and find it again.
As for the roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict - oh, boy, that's a big one!!! I'm sure you can find info online. Be sure to look at each side's viewpoint, so you can see where the conflicts arise. |
Ietlsinsider, don't you think you're an exception? You are a person concerned to get information and see things from the others' side, but do you think that the majority of the people who are living under terror nowadays-- be it in America, in Israel or in England--are able to try to see things differently? My feeling is that the avarage citizen is probably so scared that he/she simply hates Osama Bin Laden!
What you've written about terrorism is simply perfect. It's for sure an odious political device, whose consequences are hard to measure.
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Stormy Weather. |
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flying_pig319
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Aha!!
I know we've sort of moved on from the original topic of this thread, but if anyone wants to move on back to those original pictures and whether/not they are real, my dad just found this website:
http://aish.com/movies/photofraud.asp
Check it out.
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CP
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 2875
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I just watched the video at the Web site that FP319 posted, and I must say, I am disheartened but not surprised, given the casual way that journalists, politicians, and TV talking heads treat the truth.
Journalists, and that includes photojournalists, are supposed to report what they find, not create something to report. A wedding photographer can get away with placing a Minnie Mouse on the ground for effect, but a Reuters photographer? How are we supposed to believe the next story or photo out of Reuters, the Times, or anyone?
And as for the photos that this thread started out with, who will vouch for when and where they were taken, and whether they were staged?
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You live a new life for every new language you speak. -Czech proverb |
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flying_pig319
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| CP wrote: |
| Journalists, and that includes photojournalists, are supposed to report what they find, not create something to report. |
I agree.
What is actually going on should be horrifying enough for the world, no?
It really says something bad about the Arab side-- if they truly believe that they are in the right and the Israelis in the wrong, why should they feel the need to stage things to make the Israelis seem even worse? Shouldn't their view be that Israel is already so bad that they don't need to make anything up to make Israel SEEM bad?
Anyone see what I'm saying?
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ieltsinsider
Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:35 pm Post subject: the media |
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I read FPs post about us getting off topic, and I thought, yeah, true. Then I looked back at Clarissa's last post and her point that most people just hate OBL without informing themselves. Then my brain went into overdrive and I put the two together. The media has a lot to answer for - fake or doctored pictures to arouse people's emotions, not giving people the full truth about issues, scaremongering, etc. The media seems to think that people are simple minded. I have a bit more faith in people. However, one thing that people could do more often is find out what information is available online.
By the way, Clarissa, the webpage I was thinking of is www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/alqaeda.html
I did a search for Al Qaeda on Yahoo! and it was the first result up. |
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flying_pig319
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: Re: the media |
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| ieltsinsider wrote: |
I read FPs post about us getting off topic, and I thought, yeah, true. Then I looked back at Clarissa's last post and her point that most people just hate OBL without informing themselves. Then my brain went into overdrive and I put the two together. The media has a lot to answer for - fake or doctored pictures to arouse people's emotions, not giving people the full truth about issues, scaremongering, etc. The media seems to think that people are simple minded. I have a bit more faith in people. However, one thing that people could do more often is find out what information is available online.
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Hm- interesting!!
Here's how MY thought pattern worked: (hehe)
First I was thinking that the media must have tried telling the truth at first(you know, no fake pictures etc.), and it must have not worked. Why else would they need to make fake pictures to get the readers' attention?
Then I realized that there could be another reason, and it lies in capitalism.
Media, just like anything else, IS a business, and there will be competition. However, the war is just the war, and one news agency can get a picture just as much as another news agency can.
If news agencies didn't make up their OWN (much more heart-wrenching and dramatic) pictures, they'd have just the same stuff as all of the other news agencies!!
Could competition fuel the lies?
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: Re: the media |
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| flying_pig319 wrote: |
Here's how MY thought pattern worked: (hehe)
First I was thinking that the media must have tried telling the truth at first(you know, no fake pictures etc.), and it must have not worked. Why else would they need to make fake pictures to get the readers' attention?
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Could competition fuel the lies? |
You are being too generous and I think too naive. Consider, if they (Reuters, AP, et al) wanted to up the visual carnage just for ratings, why not also stage carnage photos of dead Israeli women and children around impact sites of Hezbo missiles? Why only up the visual carnage of Lebanese casualties?
The truth probably lies (no pun intended) in a direction a politically correct indoctrinated school girl may not be ready to go. The aish.com link kind of implied it.
�The first casualty when war comes is truth,�
-Senator Hiram Johnson, remarks in the Senate, 1918 |
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flying_pig319
Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 369
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: Re: the media |
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| Bob S. wrote: |
| flying_pig319 wrote: |
Here's how MY thought pattern worked: (hehe)
First I was thinking that the media must have tried telling the truth at first(you know, no fake pictures etc.), and it must have not worked. Why else would they need to make fake pictures to get the readers' attention?
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Could competition fuel the lies? |
You are being too generous and I think too naive. Consider, if they (Reuters, AP, et al) wanted to up the visual carnage just for ratings, why not also stage carnage photos of dead Israeli women and children around impact sites of Hezbo missiles? Why only up the visual carnage of Lebanese casualties?
The truth probably lies (no pun intended) in a direction a politically correct indoctrinated school girl may not be ready to go. The aish.com link kind of implied it.
�The first casualty when war comes is truth,�
-Senator Hiram Johnson, remarks in the Senate, 1918 |
I definitely see what you're saying, but I'm not sure that that's all there is to it.
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