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beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
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 Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ad-miral wrote: |
| That's why Chinese are dishonest, because they also think: I always should behave kindly, both to good people and to bad people. |
Interesting comments ad-miral, I hope you will recognize that my response is not an argument against your statement - but just the things that came to my mind from reading your thoughts.
Believe it or not, this thought and behavior (I always should behave kindly, both to good people and to bad people.) comes originally from a Daoist concept. As originally intended, this superficial "kindness" is not really deception. The original concept in Daoist philosophy is to treat all people impartially, not to treat all people kindly.
| Laozi wrote: |
老子:「道德经」:第五章
天地不仁，以万物为刍狗﹔圣人不仁，以百姓为刍狗。
天地之间，其犹橐钥乎。虚而不屈，动而愈出。
多言数穷，不如守中。
Laozi: "Dao De Jing": 5th Chapter
Nature is not kind;
It treats all things impartially.
The Sage is not kind,
And treats all people impartially.
Nature is like a bellows,
Empty, yet never ceasing its supply.
The more it moves, the more it yields;
So the sage draws upon experience
And cannot be exhausted. |
If in your heart you treat everyone impartially (be they good or bad people), and your nature is calm and accepting - it will appear superficially that you are being kind to everyone. This is not deception, it is not lying.
If you feel someone is unfair, unkind, or insulting, and you respond with kindness at the surface but feel something different in your heart - it will also appear superficially that you are being kind to everyone. But in this case it is deception and lying.
My interpretation of this Daoist concept is - be impartial. In good circumstances, you will be expressing kindness from your heart. But in bad circumstances, it's OK to speak your mind and defend your beliefs, feelings, country, family, and self. Express yourself impartially, because doing so with anger, insults, or unkindness is a waste of energy and emotion, and dilutes your effectiveness.
Thinking pragmatically, there are bad people - it is not always possible the respond with kindness from your heart. But it is possible to be impartial, respectful, and fair in all cases. It's certainly not easy to remain impartial always - but it is possible.
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
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RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| beancurdturtle wrote: |
| RedRose wrote: |
| RedRose is a terrible teacher, who even yelled at students for no reason. |
Oh my!
And I was going to request that you teach me some special love techniques.
Now I am frightened.
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come on!! I truly yelled at a student, just once!!! only because he was soooo stupid!! I asked him to answer me a techinical question(about medicine, not love), he couldn't answer, then I explained and analyzed the question to him, in all 4 times!!! but he still didn't get it!! at that moment, I was a little out of the control 
Turtle, did you even wanna request me to teach you some special love skills?? are you nuts? you are the best in love area!! and you are my teacher forever!! |
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beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| RedRose wrote: |
| ...and you are my teacher forever!! |
哪里，哪里？Who Me? 
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
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RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| beancurdturtle wrote: |
| RedRose wrote: |
| ...and you are my teacher forever!! |
哪里，哪里？Who Me? |
absolutely! you can teach me everything in so many fields!! from English to love |
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seventy-two
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 8
Location: CHINA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: Do you think Chinese are too honest? |
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| m1s57 wrote: |
I'm a Japanese student. I go to a university.
I have some friends who came from China. They are kind and have a good thinking. I like them very much.
But I think they are sometimes too honest. For example, my friend who gets fat, they say "Recently, you get fat, don't you? You should lose weight right now! " to her even she cares about that. I was surprised. Of course she looked down.
Surely, what they said is true. However, they could say more softly. If they have said softly, she wasn't hurt.
Is honest always good thing?
I don't think so... |
I was surprised to see the subject of your post, but later understood what you meant. I am not Chinese but I work here in China, and the Chinese never struck me as honest. There's a lot of cheating going on and they do not have qualms on doing so and will deny doing so even when you catch them. And they do this not only to foreigners but to their fellow Chinese as well.
I do agree with what you said about them being honest to their friends -- to the point of what would strike foreigners as being rude or offensive. But this is their way of showing that they consider you a good friend.
There are nice things I can say about the Chinese people -- they are the most hospitable people I have met in my entire life; they are hard-working, smart. But I wouldn't say they are honest.
_________________
dum vivimus vivamus |
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RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: |
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a few days ago, my schoolmaster critisized my colleague badly. the colleague is my officemate, who's often at odds with me. last month, she implicated her students to bribe her so that her student could "pass" her examination.
Actually, it was me who told my schoolmaster what she did to that student last month. after receiving the criticism from my schoolmaster, she had to apologize to all my colleagues and students, in public!
In fact, when I saw her apologize to a lot of people, I didn't feel bad, instead, I felt very happy.
But I still smile to her, through and through.  therefore, even since she suspects me of telling on, she just has no proof  I am glad that I am the tattletale because I couldn't stand her and her bad behavior.
Dose that mean that I was being dishonest? I mean, one hand, I told my boss about her bad behavior, on the other hand, I still keep smiling to her. |
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beancurdturtle
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1041
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| RedRose wrote: |
| Dose that mean that I was being dishonest? I mean, one hand, I told my boss about her bad behavior, on the other hand, I still keep smiling to her. |
You have to look in your heart and mind, and at your own motivations to answer this question.
I don't think anyone else can answer this for you. How do they know what was really in your heart and mind? How can anyone else really know what your motivation was.
Unless maybe they are Zhuangzi (庄子) and you are a fish?
_________________
Daniel
�Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.�
--Dr. Seuss |
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seventy-two
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 8
Location: CHINA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| RedRose wrote: |
But I still smile to her, through and through. therefore, even since she suspects me of telling on, she just has no proof I am glad that I am the tattletale because I couldn't stand her and her bad behavior.
Dose that mean that I was being dishonest? I mean, one hand, I told my boss about her bad behavior, on the other hand, I still keep smiling to her. |
If your colleague was your friend, I'm sure you would not tell on her but rather tell her "honestly" that you did not like what she was doing.
_________________
dum vivimus vivamus |
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RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
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| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| beancurdturtle wrote: |
I don't think anyone else can answer this for you. How do they know what was really in your heart and mind? How can anyone else really know what your motivation was.
Unless maybe they are Zhuangzi (庄子) and you are a fish? |
what was in my heart? maybe some dark thought. I dislike her, that's why I told on her. although she wasn't ZhuangZi and I wasn't a fish, but she exactly knew I was happy to see her be embarrassed
and seventy-two, you're right!! she wasn't my friend, so I told my boss what she had done. if she was my friend, I would honestly tell her about my thought, and if she was my friend, I wouldn't have felt so happy when she apologized to all teachers and students. |
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brunette
Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 51
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