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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1654
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 Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:25 am Post subject: Killers? |
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The Bible says - "Thou shalt not kill."
That is pretty straightforward.
However, Christians have always managed to find a way around it, just as Muslims have found a way around the prohibitions on killing in their religion.
Obviously you do not take your religion seriously if you can justify killing each other, when it is specifically prohibited by your God.
I suppose there's some basic atavistic impulse within us to kill each other over ideas, territory, or whatever else is the flavour of the month.
Are we born with it, or is it imposed upon us by our upbringing?
Last edited by asterix on Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Nice question this morning!
I think there is a killer instinct in the species, which is suppressed by civilization, culture, religion, education, upbringing, laws, and positive feelings as love, compassion, humanity.
Unlike other species who kill for survival, I can't help thinking that when humans kill there is a psychopathic note to it.
I've also heard that once a person gets started on it, he rather enjoys doing it.
If we look at people like Hitler, Saddam, OBL, the common denominator is they had unfulfilled childhoods with parental love amiss or insufficient.
Killers are low on love quotient, maybe. |
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:16 am Post subject: |
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. . . .Warfare on the other hand has always been for woman (in epics) or territory.
I suppose people kill either because they love excessively, or because they are deficient on love (in which case they kill for territory/religion). |
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ClarissaMach
Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:48 am Post subject: |
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Well, actually I don't think that such a basic atavistic impulse to kill exists.
Once I heard that the hardest thing to do when it comes to military training is preparing the soldiers to kill another human being. I believe in it.
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 933
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:08 am Post subject: |
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I like to think that killing by the military is defensive, personally altruistic and done as a duty. Remember the trauma an executioner goes through before and after every execution. Recently in India, I heard the hangman resigned after executing a man sentenced for rape. Of course there was a lot of debate on capital punishment in that particular case.
Soldiers, who might otherwise be cultured and civilised, kill on orders, and not on instinct or impulse. |
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ClarissaMach
Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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I know it's moving on from the original topic, but considering these words of yours:
| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
Recently in India, I heard the hangman resigned after executing a man sentenced for rape. Of course there was a lot of debate on capital punishment in that particular case.
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I must confess that, from my point of view, his punishment was absolutely fair.
I understand that, in really awful circumstances, a person might be led to rob and even to kill (as I'm writing this, I can't help remembering that classical scene of "Gone with the wind", in which Scarlett O'Hara says "If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill...as God is my witness, I will never be hungry again!").
But can someone tell me me which damn reason can lead a person to rape another, be it a woman, a child or even another man?
Recently in Brazil, an ex-prisoner, right after leaving jail, grabbed three girls who were leaving college and raped them. One of the girls managed to take hold of his gun and shoot him right in the head. I know it sounds rude coming from a mother, but I was glad to hear that the devil b astard was killed!
Rape is really an unacceptable crime, specially in a country like mine, where sex can so easily be bought.
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Anuradha Chepur
Joined: 20 May 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Very few get convicted for rape out of the few who are tried. Yeah, in the case I referred to, this guy who was a lift operator, raped and killed a school going girl living in the apartments, and he did this in retaliation for a complaint the girl had made against him. The debate was that this guy was poor with little legal resources and for every such guy, there are umpteen of the affluent, who go scot free.
I might sound cliched, but I agree, Clarissa, that rape is unacceptable, and it is as barbaric a crime as killing is. I'm glad the girl you mentioned could act on impulse and kill for defence. Look it's instinct again, and it brings us back to the original topic.
One more thing - it's men who kill and rape, and not women. So should we think all the beastly and barbaric instincts are seated on the Y chromosome? To balance this, there are positive instincts like the instinct to love, to protect, and these could be on the X chromosome. When men get barbaric, they probably do what their Y chromosome tells them to do. Since women have two X chromosomes, they are more compassionate than men, I suppose.
Sorry this is not sexism, and I'm sure people can understand. |
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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1654
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| Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: |
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It would seem to be a basic instinct that is loosely held in check by religion, and by the fear of punishment.
But in wartime, when the sanctions are removed, we're very good at it.
Other animals fight over territory and sometimes kill each other, but I think they don't intend to kill.
I have read that we are the only species that kills for pleasure. |
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ClarissaMach
Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| asterix wrote: |
It would seem to be a basic instinct that is loosely held in check by religion, and by the fear of punishment.
But in wartime, when the sanctions are removed, we're very good at it.
Other animals fight over territory and sometimes kill each other, but I think they don't intend to kill.
I have read that we are the only species that kills for pleasure. |
I still don't agree with you, asterix. I have never thought of killing anyone, and it's certainly not because of religion (since I have none), neither because I'd be afraid of punishment (I live in Brazil, the land of impunity. . . we have no such a thing as C.S.I. . .).
 or  ?
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asterix
Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Posts: 1654
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| So, Clarissa, how is it that so many people are being killed around the world? |
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RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| I once talked to a Muslim, who told that that Islam didn't encourage killing. I wonder why some Muslims would do that against their teaching? since Muslims are so religious. |
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Lenda
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| RedRose wrote: |
| I once talked to a Muslim, who told that that Islam didn't encourage killing. I wonder why some Muslims would do that against their teaching? since Muslims are so religious. |
The problem is that there are some muslims that take the idea of "Holy War" (Jihad) too seriously. I see no point in killing, especially when you end your own life while killing innocent people in the process. As my father says: human lives have never been so disregarded. Here in Brazil, people are killing each other just to steal a purse or just because a traffic fender-bender. |
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ClarissaMach
Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| asterix wrote: |
It would seem to be a basic instinct that is loosely held in check by religion, and by the fear of punishment.
But in wartime, when the sanctions are removed, we're very good at it.
Other animals fight over territory and sometimes kill each other, but I think they don't intend to kill.
I have read that we are the only species that kills for pleasure. |
For a lot of reasons, Asterix, but not because there's this thing you call "basic atavistic impulse within us to kill each other".
Hum. . . I have the feeling I did not understand your first post at all. What exactly did you mean?
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ClarissaMach
Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 644
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Anuradha Chepur wrote: |
One more thing - it's men who kill and rape, and not women. So should we think all the beastly and barbaric instincts are seated on the Y chromosome? To balance this, there are positive instincts like the instinct to love, to protect, and these could be on the X chromosome. When men get barbaric, they probably do what their Y chromosome tells them to do. Since women have two X chromosomes, they are more compassionate than men, I suppose.
Sorry this is not sexism, and I'm sure people can understand. |
My opinion over this is suspicious, since I am a woman  ; but I agree with you that, in terms of violent behavior, women tend to be better than men.
You see, the world looks very different if you're a man or a woman. Recently there was a topic in the Opinions forum concerning people who have sex with animals. I and Mrs RedRose were the main posters; our point of view was that having sex with animals was something disgusting, and that was all.
But then Mr Bob decided to post, and his point of view brought new light to the issue; he reminded us that "the person who is going to kidnap, sexually molest, torture, and kill your child tomorrow is stealing, sexually molesting, torturing, and killing neighborhood pets today".
He was right. I thought over the question for a while and I realised that we (me and RedRose) probably didn't see things the way he did at first because we're women; we saw things through the perspective of woman who do this kind of thing (sex with animals) for money. Men who do it usually are perverted people that like to harass weaker creatures.
(Here it is the entire discussion: http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/student/viewtopic.php?t=18784).
It's indeniable that there's a huge difference between man and woman even when it comes to sexual abuse. In the past I worked at a children's hospital. Once I was talking to one of the doctos who worked there and I asked if cases of sexual abuse were still common; I also asked if he had ever seen cases of women who sexual abuse their children.
He said that, unfortunately, cases of sexual abuse are still very common; but he told me that, during the thirty years he had worked there, he had only seen two cases of women who behaved like sexual molesters. He said that, even in this cases, it was noticeable that these mothers, although behaving like sexual molesters, still behaved like mothers; but when fathers sexual molested their children, it was the typical behavior of wolf against Red Hat.
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RedRose
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| ClarissaMach wrote: |
You see, the world looks very different if you're a man or a woman. Recently there was a topic in the Opinions forum concerning people who have sex with animals. I and Mrs RedRose were the main posters; our point of view was that having sex with animals was something disgusting, and that was all.
But then Mr Bob decided to post, and his point of view brought new light to the issue; he reminded us that "the person who is going to kidnap, sexually molest, torture, and kill your child tomorrow is stealing, sexually molesting, torturing, and killing neighborhood pets today".
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Yes, Bob has seen the other side of the case, let's say he looked forther than us. that's a good example that men and women have the different visual angles. |
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