Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

admiral · Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 546

I guess you are thinking wrong
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Outofin · Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 71

The cartoons themselves are bad enough to cause the riots. In addition, I think they acted like the last straw. The anger of Islam has long been there and this is a chance of entirely political correct to show their angers. So they do.

I don't believe they're being encouraged by the gov'ts.

hector · Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 37

obelix · Joined: 09 Feb 2003 Posts: 304

Iran is a model of democracy; so is Syria.
They are just lovely places to live, with kind policemen and benevolent rulers.
If only America, and particularly, Great? Britain were so lovely.

pugachevV · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2295

Right On Obelix!
Hector - PAL???!!!
It is wooly headed thinkers such as you seem to be, who cannot fall on their knees quicky enough to suck up to tyrants, as long as they hate the west, who will one day get a rude awakening. No doubt your shrink will explain self-hatred to you, when you're far enough along.
As for Muslims, I don't need to paint them as any more stupid than they already are.
Do you think this irrational bloody nonsense over a poor cartoon in an obsure paper in DENMARK, will give the world a good impression of muslims?

hector · Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 37

hector · Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 37

Snake777 · Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:21 pm Post subject:

Okay , from what i know , people dont want to use Danish products anymore , i mean people in Islam countries Confused

asterix · Joined: 26 Jan 2003 Posts: 1654

I think you might find that obelix was being somewhat sarcastic, or very naive. Take your pick.

stellara · Joined: 02 Apr 2005 Posts: 583 Location: germany

but think about this:
these cartoons were published in September 2005 and all the heavy protest and the demonstrations started in January 2006! so why do you think no one cared about these cartoons the first 4 months? it seems that the ordinary person doesn't really care about them, just because they were downright activated or encouraged by whoever. and think about the reasons, too.. Confused

hector · Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 37

hector · Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 37

I have found this elsewhere on the net, it tells the story from the point of view of the Dannish muslims:

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=9&topic_id=73733#74056

As a muslim in Denmark who�s followed the danish debate closely I�ll try to shed some light on the danish muslims point of view:

First off and most important the protests from the muslims in Denmark where on much more than the actual cartoons: the issue at hand here was the �freedom of speech� vs. �respect for religion/ boundaries for abuse�. The cartoons were at that point only the latest of a series of reports and comments that the muslim minority found unacceptable. The bashing of Islam and muslims has been going on for a very long time so I�ll only present the most recent cases:

In October Danish MP and mayoral candidate in Copenhagen (for the Danish people�s party) Louise Frevert on her website compared muslims with a cancer tumour that needed to be removed from Danish society she stated that �Our laws forbid us to kill our enemies in public, so our only remedy is to fill our prisons with these criminals.' In the article she went on recommending that because of the cheaper costs the Muslim criminals should be sent to prisons in Russia.

In December Danish MP and DPP�s spokesman on educational affairs went on to describe �Islam as a terrorist movement�.

http://www.cphpost.dk/get/92733.html

Attacks on muslims and Islam in general appear in the media on a daily basis and Danish MP�s (mainly from DPP) have turned it into a habit to attack and insult muslims and foreigners.

The Danish people�s party a far right party which was made up from remnants of �Fremskridtspartiet� an ultra-racist party and has neo-nazi links, is the 3rd biggest party in Denmark gaining almost 20% of the votes in the last election and is part of a coalition government.
Basically 20% of the Danish population voted for a racist party that is responsible for many laws aimed towards foreigners such as the highly debated 24-year rule which in 2 UN human rights reports has been deemed as discriminatory and heavily criticized.

http://www.nhri.net/news.asp?ID=713

Any ways back to the cartoon case, basically the pictures in (Jyllands-posten) the newspaper were like a big drop in a very full cup. Jyllands-posten being a right wing newspaper published these newspapers as a conscious act of provocation towards the muslim minority. In the initial aftermath of this case more than one scholar specialised in religion and Islam has come out and made it clear that the newspaper had contacted them to ask what kind of a reaction the stunt could cause and that they clearly warned them of the reactions.
So a group of Danish muslims appealed to ambassadors of muslim countries to discuss the issue of the cartoons and the abuse and racism they felt the media aimed towards them and the prime minister very arrogantly refused to meet the 11 ambassadors who requested a meeting. That sparked the international reaction.

Basically as I stated earlier it�s a question of setting the boundaries of abuse. Freedom of speech is very good and all but is not a valid cover for racism IMO which the whole case essentially is about.

Of course I find flag and embassy burning and terror threats despicable. Especially the embassy incidents is horrific and shocking
The reactions have been out of proportion without a doubt but the issue is just as much a huge diplomatic failure on behalf of the primeminister.

pugachevV · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 2295

Freedom of speech means that you have the freedom to say what you like. To many people, the muslim religion is characterised by those we see blowing up each other and everything in sight. If that is what people read and see about a certain group of people, then that is the impression they will get.
It is called a stereotype, but a stereotype is not formed without reason.
Incidentally it is not racism to dislike a religious grup for their arcane practices, Hector, but it is a popular tactic of people of your ilk to level the charge of racism at anyone who does not agee with their lopsided view of the world, or their religion.

hector · Joined: 30 Jan 2006 Posts: 37

Outofin · Joined: 09 Feb 2006 Posts: 71

Apart from the current cartoon case, which I think went too far, in general I find it difficult to draw a line whether some vile comments are beyond the spirit of free speech. I think, more importantly, the whole society should build up a consensus. Politicians and journalists could say what they want, but when they cross the line, that practically announces the death of his career. I think that should work better than defining what's legal and what's illegal. The moral build-up could take over years.