Dave's ESL Cafe's Student Discussion Forums

Anuradha Chepur · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 933

Asterix wrote

ieltsinsider · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 170

I couldn't agree more with A.C.'s last post. Religious texts are open to interpretation and there will always be some people who seek to interpret them to their own personal advantage. Most people who follow a religion are decent people and a lot of responsibility lies with them to show their co-religionists that the holy texts should be used for peaceful purposes, not violence.

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

But do you all think that the terrorists are using Allah as an excuse for their bombings, or do you think that they sincerely believe that they're just doing what Allah told them, doing the right thing (even thought it's NOT the right thing).
Seems like an important distiction to me: evil, or just crazy, right?
_________________
peace-monger

Anuradha Chepur · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 933

k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh

4:93]Waman yaqtul mu/minan mutaAAammidan fajazaohujahannamu khalidan feeha waghadiba AllahuAAalayhi walaAAanahu waaAAadda lahu AAathaban AAatheeman ومن يقتل مؤمنا متعمدا فجزاؤه جهنم خالدا فيها وغضب الله عليه ولعنه واعد له عذابا عظيما
If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.

Belivers =almu/minoona = المؤمنون=People of the Book .
.....................
16.[17:33] Wala taqtuloo alnnafsa allateeharrama Allahu illa bialhaqqiwaman qutila mathlooman faqad jaAAalnaliwaliyyihi sultanan fala yusrif fee alqatli innahukana mansooran ولا تقتلوا النفس التي حرم الله الا بالحق ومن قتل مظلوما فقد جعلنا لوليه سلطانا فلا يسرف في القتل انه كان منصورا
Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).

a Person = nafsin = نفسا .........

82.[5:82] walatajidanna aqrabahum mawaddatan lillatheena amanooallatheena qaloo inna nasara thalikabi-anna minhum qisseeseena waruhbanan waannahum layastakbiroona ولتجدن اقربهم مودة للذين امنوا الذين قالوا انا نصاري ذلك بان منهم قسيسين ورهبانا وانهم لا يستكبرون
nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

15.[3:199] وان من اهل الكتاب لمن يؤمن بالله وما انزل اليكم وما انزل اليهم خاشعين لله لا يشترون بايات الله ثمنا قليلا اولئك لهم اجرهم عند ربهم ان الله سريع الحساب
"And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to Allah: They will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account."
what God "Allah " told Muhammad see this :

15.[29:46] ولا تجادلوا اهل الكتاب الا بالتي هي احسن الا الذين ظلموا منهم وقولوا امنا بالذي انزل الينا وانزل اليكم والهنا والهكم واحد ونحن له مسلمون
"And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your (God)Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."

5.[5:5] اليوم احل لكم الطيبات وطعام الذين اوتوا الكتاب حل لكم وطعامكم حل لهم والمحصنات من المؤمنات والمحصنات من الذين اوتوا الكتاب من قبلكم اذا اتيتموهن اجورهن محصنين غير مسافحين ولا متخذي اخدان ومن يكفر بالايمان فقد حبط عمله وهو في الاخرة من الخاسرين
"This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good)."

16.[2:190] وقاتلوا في سبيل الله الذين يقاتلونكم ولا تعتدوا ان الله لا يحب المعتدين
"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loved not transgressors."

29.[60:8] لا ينهاكم الله عن الذين لم يقاتلوكم في الدين ولم يخرجوكم من دياركم ان تبروهم وتقسطوا اليهم ان الله يحب المقسطين " Allah( God) forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just."

32.[5:32] annahu man qatala nafsan bighayri nafsinaw fasadin fee al-ardi fakaannama qatala alnnasajameeAAan waman ahyaha fakaannama ahyaalnnasa jameeAAan walaqad jaat-hum rusulunabialbayyinati thumma inna katheeran minhum baAAda thalikafee al-ardi lamusrifoona انه من قتل نفسا بغير نفس او فساد في الارض فكانما قتل الناس جميعا ومن احياها فكانما احيا الناس جميعا ولقد جاءتهم رسلنا بالبينات ثم ان كثيرا منهم بعد ذلك في الارض لمسرفون
On that account: if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

a Person = nafsin = نفسا .........

A bove from QURAN....

KMM

Anuradha Chepur · Joined: 20 May 2006 Posts: 933

In the Bhagavad Geeta, Lord Krishna tells a hesitant Arjuna to fight against injustice. Atheists in India (they are not terrorists though) love to misinterpret it before they can indulge in verbal blasphemy. Terorism is the worst form of blasphemy.

BourneNOIR · Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 113

Terrorists are cowards who hide in the shadows and hide behind religion to commit atrocities against the world. They twist their religion to use it as a tool for committing heinous crime. KMM's post answers FP's question whether the terrorists are "using Allah as an excuse for their bombings, or ... just doing what Allah told them". The terrorists have killed both innocent Muslims and non-Muslims in their attacks. That is not forgivable in the eyes of Allah (according to KMM's post).

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

Hm- I think I disagree.
I think the terrorists are crazy, but in their craziness genuinely think they're just fulfilling Allah's wishes.
Apparently I'm in the minority.
_________________
peace-monger

BourneNOIR · Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 113

k.m.m · Joined: 23 Jul 2006 Posts: 121 Location: Riyadh

flying_pig319 · Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Posts: 369

I was thinking about the leaders, not the followers (but I haven't given much thought to the followers, so I don't know).
In response to what KMM said, it can still be true that the terrorists genuinely think that they ARE carrying out Allah's wishes (although, as made clear by your post, they aren't, because Allah thinks death is awful). They're crazy (to think that Allah would support their terrorism), but they're genuine (because in their craziness, they honestly believe they're doing the right thing).
What a mess.

As for the followers, I'm not sure. I could definitely see it either way, but I guess I'm leaning toward pure craziness, for them.
_________________
peace-monger

jonaid · Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 18 Location: Durham, UK

Flying Pig,
I agree with you, it's a real mess.

We consider those people as the worst kind of those who misunderstood Islam. They're using it to fulfill there own purposes. That's why we don't consider their behaviors as Islamic behaviors. They're odd group.

It is very obvious, to us, who follows the right Islam and who don't because we have the Qur'an, Sunnah, and the Islamic history. Go back to the history and see how Muslims treat other people (if you watched Kingdom of heaven movie, you would know what I'm talking about).

Greetings
_________________
Nothing in this world is to be feared of... Only understood. [marie curie]

ieltsinsider · Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 170

As k.m.m. said "I think Allah telling every body ..." That's what k.m.m. thinks, but it's not what some other Muslims think. As I said before, religious texts are open to interpretation. With Islam, there is an added issue - there is no central authority offering an interpretation (e.g. the Pope in Catholicism). For example, in Islam, 'fatwas' (religious edicts) can be issued by thousands of imams without any reference to each other or to any organisation.