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Enhao
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 49
Location: San francisco
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 Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Ummm SOrry
I have to say onemore thing. We are NOT feeling too proud because our country is glowing strong.
I think all these thing happen must have reason. Maybe something is back of it
_________________
Hi I am a kind chinese boy. I am a little like a girl because I shy about everthing I am a new
immigrant to America for 1 years I hope I could find a bosom friend here (female is good) I am not a playboy I just want to have a female bosom friend. |
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Dreamcatcher
Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 38
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:43 am Post subject: |
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I think Japan should take the example frome Germany. Germany has acknoledged its mistakes many times, and still doing it. They really are sorry about that... but Japan....
They want to get islands from Russia.... these islands were given after war... but they require in the way Russia stole these islands... and Japan talks even about the Sahalin coast...
And these books.... |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| It's not true that China gives japan a reason,but the reason was included a trap which set up by Japan many years ago,its a conspiracy. |
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| element105 wrote: |
| Oh,thank you,Bob.It seems that you know it clearly,then why you said "that's not really necessary"?And you might think I was nagging about Japanese war crimes,I have to be so nagging,because there,some organizations have been trying best to erase the memories of what Japan had done in WWII from people's minds. |
Oh, no. We are arguing 2 different points and causing some minor misunderstanding. Actually I completely agree with you that it is shameful that Japan today seems to try to forget its past. In English, there is a saying: Those that forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
My point was a minor disagreement with a statement by Mr. Admiral. He was saying that China should increase its military size to match Japan's military. I was saying that is not necessary because China's army is already much larger than Japan's military (in terms of numbers of soldiers and equipment). Though there is a question of the quality of that equipment. See my response to him about that question. |
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| Mr.Admiral wrote: |
Think logically. A country with such a big district automatically has more soldiers, am I wrong?
The manpower doesn't say that much about the strengh of the army, because it's proportional to the size of the district...
I think because of the better weapons.
10000 Persons with pistols and 5000 with machine guns- Which side will win?
I think the military expenditures is more important, because it maybe reveals the intention of the country if they want to make war... I think that Japan is more dangerous than China. |
Logically, I think your premise is very sound. And in fact history is full of examples of how a smaller army with a technological advantage defeated a larger but less advanced army. (The one notable exception is WWII where the slightly technologically superior Germany was defeated by the Allies thanks to the U.S.'s vastly superior and relatively defended industrial capacity.)
But China today is not the same as the China of the 1920's when imperial Japan started looking at its natural resources with envy. Even if China's factories can only produce Soviet era weapons, the numbers it can produce should scare the crap out of Japan's military minds.
And, IMHO, there is a question about the will to fight. There was an incident in Tokyo around a month or so ago where a drunk driver crashed his car. He stepped out and started swinging a bat. Armed Japanese police saw this and ran away like little girls from a snake. It's just one incident, but I think it's rather telling of how confrontation-averse the modern Japanese are today. And you don't hear much about their military engineers they sent to Iraq (mostly they seem to be hiding in their compound). They just don't seem to have the stomach for a real fight (an English metaphor).
So when push comes to shove (an English expression), I highly doubt Japan's military's effectiveness at defending that supposed disputed little island everyone's test-drilling for oil on or its ability to support the U.S. navy if a war starts over Taiwan.
But let's hope wise men can rule and there is no chance for that to be tested.  |
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kotacho
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: This message from Japan |
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You guys are misunderstanding about Japanese History Books.
Have you really see one before?
You think Japanese young students don't know what Japanese had done in China in WWⅡ, don't you?
But we KNOW what they had done there, for example Nanking massacre or the story which the two soldiers killed over 200 Chinese, or the kill-gas, and all Japnaese except right winds consider the war was wrong of us.
We are studying the truth. But I don't think you are studying the truth which Japanese really think.
And the truth is written in the most Japanese history books.
Of course, some couples of book don't say so.
But the untruth books are 2 or 3 of 10,000 history books in Japan.
Do you think the teachers want to use the problemed book?
They don't.....
I think it is truth.
Please give me a respond! |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob S. wrote: |
Oh, no. We are arguing 2 different points and causing some minor misunderstanding. Actually I completely agree with you that it is shameful that Japan today seems to try to forget its past. In English, there is a saying: Those that forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
My point was a minor disagreement with a statement by Mr. Admiral. He was saying that China should increase its military size to match Japan's military. I was saying that is not necessary because China's army is already much larger than Japan's military (in terms of numbers of soldiers and equipment). Though there is a question of the quality of that equipment. See my response to him about that question. |
Yes,I know your opinion on this issue now.Thanks for clarifying.
As for another issue,of which Mr.Admiral and you are arguing,I definitely think that China should increase military size especially increase navy and airforce budget.So far as I know the No.1 navy among asian countries is the navy of Japanese self-defense force,I have no idea that what the purpose for founding that huge fleet is,its battle range is far from being self-defense.Now,they are going to amend constitution for changing self-defense force into regular army,I dont know what its next setp will be,to legalize carriers and atomic bombs?I really dont know. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: This message from Japan |
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| kotacho wrote: |
You guys are misunderstanding about Japanese History Books.
Have you really see one before?
You think Japanese young students don't know what Japanese had done in China in WWⅡ, don't you?
But we KNOW what they had done there, for example Nanking massacre or the story which the two soldiers killed over 200 Chinese, or the kill-gas, and all Japnaese except right winds consider the war was wrong of us.
We are studying the truth. But I don't think you are studying the truth which Japanese really think.
And the truth is written in the most Japanese history books.
Of course, some couples of book don't say so.
But the untruth books are 2 or 3 of 10,000 history books in Japan.
Do you think the teachers want to use the problemed book?
They don't.....
I think it is truth.
Please give me a respond! |
So since you know the past well,tell me your opinion about that,and about currently unfriend actions between China-Japan and Korea-Japan mounted by Japanese government. |
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Bob S.
Joined: 29 Apr 2004
Posts: 1767
Location: So. Cal
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:12 am Post subject: |
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| element105 wrote: |
| Now,they are going to amend constitution for changing self-defense force into regular army,I dont know what its next setp will be,to legalize carriers and atomic bombs?I really dont know. |
You may be more right than you know.
Right now, it is not politically possible for any national Japanese politician to advocate that Japan build its own nuclear weapons (though I wouldn't be surprised if Tokyo governor Ishihara had made such a recommendation). Such a foolish national politician would quickly loose his job. But in 5 or 10 years, if the situation in North Korea does not change, you might see a Japanese Prime Minister make just such a recommendation. I can imagine it is a frightening idea for you. (Nobody wants to see a nation of 12 year old children have such dangerous toys.) But to my mind, it is not more firghtening than the insane Kim Jong Il having nuclear missiles. |
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atmsci
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:54 am Post subject: Japanese textbooks |
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Seems like you people don't understand that Japanese schools have a freedom to choose appropriate text books among many choices. You seem to assume that schools can only follow what the government says, but it is not the case in Japan.
Text books are written by private companies and they range from conservative to liberal to achieve the balance of perspectives and opinions. Most schools will choose appropriate text books and reject extreme ones. On the other hand, China and Korea only have ONE state-written text book and schools don't have any choice but to use it. In other words, Chinese and Korean students are exposed to only one (and heavily biased ) interpretation of history.
| Bob S. wrote: |
| It's sad in a pathetic kind of way that many of the young people in Japan today live in a sheltered world of ignorance. They are shocked to find out the reason for the Atomic-bomb dome memorial in Hiroshima. And until the movie Pearl Harbor came out, many had no idea that the U.S. and Japan were once at war. And you can forget asking anyone of any knowledge of Unit 731 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731). |
Japanese is fortunate to have freedom of press and freedom of choice. Schools, the media etc. are very open to show the Japans aggressions in the past regardless of what the government says. I know about brutal acts of Japanese soldiers during WW II, but I do not want to deal with foreigners who always bring it up in my face with the hint of moral superiority. I think many of the young generation in Japan feel the same way, and are fed up with criticisms from those who have never read the Japanese history textbooks even once. As a nation of freedom and democracy, we are well trained to accept any criticism that deserves discussing. However we won't tolerate groundless critique as It creates misconceptions which in turn create hatred. |
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atmsci
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:17 am Post subject: What about CCP and China's textbook? |
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China's Selective Memory
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61708-2005Apr17.html
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| Well, you might say, how a nation treats its internal history is less relevant to its qualifications for the Security Council than whether it teaches its children honestly about its wars with other nations. A dubious proposition, but no matter; as the Times found in its review of textbooks, Chinese children do not learn of their nation's invasion of Tibet (1950) or aggression against Vietnam (1979). And they are taught that Japan was defeated in World War II by Chinese Communist guerrillas; Pearl Harbor, Iwo Jima and Midway don't figure in. |
What Chinese textbooks don't say
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/13/china.japan.ap/index.html
| Quote: |
"With rising Chinese nationalism, the efforts to rewrite history, to reinterpret history according to the demands of nationalism have become a major national pastime," said Maochun Yu, a history professor at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland.
Experts say China's textbooks are written to heighten a sense of national victimhood and glorify the Communist Party that seized power in a 1949 revolution and lashes out at any threat to its rule. |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Bob S. wrote: |
You may be more right than you know.
Right now, it is not politically possible for any national Japanese politician to advocate that Japan build its own nuclear weapons (though I wouldn't be surprised if Tokyo governor Ishihara had made such a recommendation). Such a foolish national politician would quickly loose his job. But in 5 or 10 years, if the situation in North Korea does not change, you might see a Japanese Prime Minister make just such a recommendation. I can imagine it is a frightening idea for you. (Nobody wants to see a nation of 12 year old children have such dangerous toys.) But to my mind, it is not more firghtening than the insane Kim Jong Il having nuclear missiles. |
Then they are both dangerous,I think we don't want to see things as nuclear weapons spreading widely as this.  |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Japanese textbooks |
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atmsci,seems like you people don't know what freedom really is.Freedom doesn't mean you can do everything you want,but everything inside the confine of laws.I don't know your law,so does it permit to forget and celebrate past sins of WWII?I've heart alot of cases of accusation from WWII labors and comfort women,isn't it the right time you face up the past?
Since Japanese know the past well,how could these right wings and old soldiers celebrate the war,marching publicly but nobody protests?Don't you think it's them who always bring it up to your face with the hint of moral superiority.Why can you fed up with the right wings marches,the visiting of war criminal shrine and the celebration of your past killings but can't fed up with our advice?Are you people selectively blind?
Remember,we didn't want to press you till you did something really wrong. |
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atmsci
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 8
Location: Tokyo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:10 am Post subject: Yasukuni |
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| element105 wrote: |
| Since Japanese know the past well,how could these right wings and old soldiers celebrate the war,marching publicly but nobody protests?Don't you think it's them who always bring it up to your face with the hint of moral superiority.Why can you fed up with the right wings marches,the visiting of war criminal shrine and the celebration of your past killings but can't fed up with our advice?Are you people selectively blind? |
How do you know that they are celebrating past sins of WWII? As long as Koizumi is stressing what I find to be quite sincerely that his visit to Yasukuni Shrine is in no way meant to celebrate Japan's past aggressions. That shrine is for the war dead, and it has a long history for people to pray for the war deads. In fact, Yasukuni has not been an issue for a long time after the end of WWII, and many foreign royalties, political leaders, religious leaders and military personnel have visited the shrine. http://www.tetsusenkai.net/official/yasukuni/english/record.html
Foreign soldiers, cadets also marches at Yasukuni. http://2.csx.jp/users/korea/YasukuniG.html |
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element105
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 518
Location: Tsingtao,China
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Yasukuni |
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| atmsci wrote: |
How do you know that they are celebrating past sins of WWII? As long as Koizumi is stressing what I find to be quite sincerely that his visit to Yasukuni Shrine is in no way meant to celebrate Japan's past aggressions. That shrine is for the war dead, and it has a long history for people to pray for the war deads. In fact, Yasukuni has not been an issue for a long time after the end of WWII, and many foreign royalties, political leaders, religious leaders and military personnel have visited the shrine. http://www.tetsusenkai.net/official/yasukuni/english/record.html
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Hah,and you always try to forget that yasukuni shrine also has the places for war criminals such as beast hideki tojo,etc..When you pray at the shrine,you stab knife at our heart,bleeding us again and again.After that,you call for our respect and criticize that we pretend to be victims,isn't that ridiculous???
You almost change my mind to the regular Japanese people,I thought they were kind and didn't like the bad politicians,now I find it's hardly to think so. |
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