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Taiwan is a part of China. FOR EVER
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Dennis21021

Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Taiwan

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: Why???

I was born in Taiwan, and I love Taiwan. I don't know WHY you are so serious about whether Taiwan is a part of China or not. Because we are so excellent or powerful? If you don't think so, just BE yourself!

BourneNOIR

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 113

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Why???

Dennis21021 wrote:

I was born in Taiwan, and I love Taiwan. I don't know WHY you are so serious about whether Taiwan is a part of China or not. Because we are so excellent or powerful? If you don't think so, just BE yourself!

Nothing against you, but do you know what it's like to live outside of Taiwan as a Taiwanese and see your own country gets ignored by the international community? Do you know how it feels to not be able to attend international events as Taiwan or Taiwanese? Do you know how it it feels not being able to fly your own flag in international events or in public places because China said so? People have a sense of pride when they see their own flag while they're away from their country, and Taiwanese can't even do that.

People in communist China say that Chinese should not have two different countries. "Country" is a political term, just like "communist". People interpret "Chinese" as a person from China, therefore "Chinese" is connected with communist China. I'd rather identify myself as HAN (漢人) than to say I'm Chinese.

Immigrants from England, Ireland, Italy, German, Mexico, etc. all are proud to call themselves Americans, because America is a democratic country and people like to be free. I'd be proud to call myself Chinese if it weren't for that oppressive communist government in China. Until democracy replaces communism in China, I'm Taiwanese/Han and Taiwan should be politically separate from China to prevent communism from tainting it's democracy that the Taiwanese people enjoy so much.

Last edited by BourneNOIR on Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

BourneNOIR

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 113

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Taiwan belongs to China!!!!!!!

Jenny.0504 wrote:

I am a Chinese girl, and I strongly oppose those people who think Taiwan is independent from China. Whoever have learned Chinese history know that Taiwan has been a part of China for thousands of years.

Obviously the history book you're talking about is printed by communist Chinese government. Have you read other sources of history? Can you even access different history textbooks in China? Do you know that you're only learning what the communist Chinese government want you to learn? Well, if you're able to escape the communist censorship try visiting

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taiwan
http://bst.berkeley.edu/taiwan_history.php

Jenny.0504 wrote:

Those who premeditate to separate Taiwan from China are ridiculous! Exclamation

We hope a early reunification of China by peace instead of war. I'm looking forward to peaceful negotiations between the mainland and Taiwan. Smile

Why do some of you support the separation of Taiwan from China? I want to know your reasons.

Yeah, wishful thinking. Have you asked yourself this:
Why does China want to forcefully acquire Taiwan?
Why doesn't China reclaim Mongolia as well, since they're "Chinese"
Why do people prefer democracy over communism?
Why do you ignore things like the Tiananmen Square?
Why are you so supportive of the communist government?
Why are there so much more freedom in Taiwan?
Why do you want to see your "fellow Chinese" fall back to communism?
Why don't you support democracy and tell your government to be more democratic like Taiwan?
Why would anyone give up freedom just to be with their "fellow Chinese"?
Why are you so against the separation of Taiwan?
Is it just to "save face"? Is it just because of national pride? Is it because the communist government says "it's bad"? Is it because that's what you're taught? Is it because Taiwan is such an economic gem?
You people say that China would be stronger with the unification of Taiwan, that's without a doubt. But at what cost? The freedom of Taiwan? Democracy? The economic growth and well-being of Taiwanese people? Now that everything has to go through the "central government" you think things like open market and SARS crisis won't be affected?
You seem like an educated person with decent English grammar. I would like to know your reasons/answers.

Last edited by BourneNOIR on Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

BourneNOIR

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 113

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject:

cocobeijing wrote:

Hello! Every Taiwaness!
Here i am shocked by your violent rejection from unifying to mainland.

Hello! Every Chiness!
Here i am shocked by your brainwashed acceptance in the anti-freedom ways of the communist government.

Damn! Do you people all read from the same goddamn script?
"Oh, you should be proud of being Chinese"
"Oh, we will be strong as one nation"
"Oh, we're blood brothers and sisters"
"Oh, it's wrong to reject your heritage"

These sounds like the Brotherhood of NOD in Command and Conquer, haha! You know what, it also reminds me of the brotherhood of mutants in X-Men. Stop playing the race card! People who play the damn race card are those who know that they have nothing else better to use to coerce others into joining them.

Communist China wants everyone to think that race and heritage is important. IT IS NOT!! The happiness and the well-being of its people are!! Why the hell do you think people emigrated to other countries for a better life?? Do the immigrants move to America because they don't want to consider themselves Italians, Germans, Russians, Chinese?? NO!! They still kept their own heritage, but also call themselves "Americans". Taiwan has democracy and a hell lot more freedom than Communist China, so what's wrong with people keeping a distance from Communist China??

You know who else played the race card? Adolf Hitler. That's right! Only losers play the race card to keep people they want together, because all other reasons will show that they are much worse than everyone else.

simplyblessedwithlove

Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 125
Location: bay area, california

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject:

mango_lover wrote:

simplyblessedwithlove wrote:

Mr.Admiral wrote:

hi simplybutblessedwithlove,
The communism in China now is not the communism in China before. Please note it. That is what the quotation means.
You say to it that the China government in the past is wrong, and I agree with you.
You also say that the China government now acts the same as the government in the past only because the name remained.
That is not right and it's a prejudice.

Educate me with your knowledge about how China communist government is right now and how different it is than it was in the past. I'd like to know your view on it because for what I know, they're still following the "ideal" theory of communism.

Mr.Admiral wrote:

After 50 years HongKong will remain a district of China with it's own traditions and customs like all the other districts in China, For example Yunnan, with it's dialect, like all the other dialects in China.
It's only condition is to accept that it belongs to China, only a word.

Hong Kong never claimed itself a COUNTRY like Taiwan because Hong Kong people knew they would go back to the Mainland China eventually. Mainland China gave up or lent Hong Kong to British so it was kinda on a renting lease, not like Taiwan. Hong Kong's always belonged to China so we don't need to go there to discuss whether it should go back to Mainland China or not.
About the reason why Hong Kong people left Hong Kong, I think it was because Hong Kong always has a different system of government than Mainland China-- they follow the British system. After 50 years, they will have to be under Mainland China's control and follow whatever Mainland China requires them. If you were a noncommunist, you would understand why people who were not communists didn't wanna be under their control, ok.
By the way, I was talking about the system of governments, not the customs, traditions, cultures, dialects, or whatever. It's because every part of China has its own thing, none of them is alike. However, it doesn't matter if they're different in customs and stuff, they still have to be under Mainland China's control. That's what I'm talking about.

OMFG, do you people know the history? China lost war to Britain, so they let britain to have hong kong for 100 years, hong kong was returend to china in 1997.

FFS this is so different from the suitation we have in taiwan!

I thought I had it correct. What did I miss? Confused

_________________
Len T.

BourneNOIR

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 113

Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:44 pm Post subject:

simplyblessedwithlove wrote:

I thought I had it correct. What did I miss? Confused

I think mango_lover's reply was more directed towards the other guy... except that the lease of Hong Kong to Great Britain was 99 years, not 50, not 100.

On a side note...
The civil war between KMT and CCP never really ended. Neither side surrendered to each other. No treaty was ever signed, so the war was never over. There was no treaty or agreement to declare that ROC ceased to exist and that everything has to be turned over to the new official government. As long as nothing official exists to end ROC, technically both ROC and PRC exists as separate political entities regardless of what the world thinks. However, since PRC wants to use the word "China" to represent itself, ROC has to find a different word. "Taiwan" is now the word to represent ROC, but it lacks a more official tone...

Just something to think about...

nostril5

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 65

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 1:45 am Post subject: Why worry?

Don't worry. 1. China will not invade Taiwan in the next 20 years. Why? If they invade, the US and the EU will impose economic sanctions. China (like Japan, Taiwan, Korea...) in the 90's, have are trillions of yuan in poorly secured loans. If the economy slows, the loans do not get paid, the banks crash, and the economy will probably crash. The Chinese ministers are all getting rich on their businesses and bribes. They do not want to be poor again. 2. After 20 years, you will have the 3rd generation of people who have lived in a wealthy country. Like all other Western and Asian countries, these people will be sooooooooo different from their parents and grandparents. They will want peace, respect, safety and wealth, but not through using missiles and guns. The future looks good. Enjoy it:) Mike

RedRose

Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2735
Location: GuangZhou, China

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: Re: Why worry?

nostril5 wrote:

Don't worry.
1. China will not invade Taiwan in the next 20 years. Why? If they invade, the US and the EU will impose economic sanctions. China (like Japan, Taiwan, Korea...) in the 90's, have are trillions of yuan in poorly secured loans. If the economy slows, the loans do not get paid, the banks crash, and the economy will probably crash. The Chinese ministers are all getting rich on their businesses and bribes. They do not want to be poor again.
2. After 20 years, you will have the 3rd generation of people who have lived in a wealthy country. Like all other Western and Asian countries, these people will be sooooooooo different from their parents and grandparents. They will want peace, respect, safety and wealth, but not through using missiles and guns.
The future looks good. Enjoy it:)
Mike

that's what we call Self - consolation ! good one!

Mandy Wang

Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 2
Location: China

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:00 am Post subject:

I am a Chinese.I love my country and of course I believe there is only one China.But Taiwan is not weak.we are a family.We will never be apart.

BourneNOIR

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 113

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:06 am Post subject:

Mandy Wang wrote:

I am a Chinese.I love my country and of course I believe there is only one China.But Taiwan is not weak.we are a family.We will never be apart.

You love your country... does that mean you love Communism too? Do you think you have all the freedom you can enjoy under a Communist government? Have you experienced Democracy in places like Taiwan, United States, and many countries in western Europe? Why do people like you keep wanting to force Democratic Taiwan to fall under Communist rule?

True, we are connected in some ways, but we'll never be connected politically as long as freedom and human rights are not protected in Communist China. Democracy will ALWAYS be separate from Communism. Taiwan represents a place where democracy thrives and over 23 million people are enjoying freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom to criticize the government, and freedom that you could never be able to imagine if you're in Communist China.

Being a different country does NOT mean the people are different, just that ideas and the function of government are different. I guess your Communist government did not teach you that. Taiwanese people like freedom, want to voice their own opinions by voting, and enjoy the benefits of democracy. Why does China want to forcefully acquire Taiwan and put it under its rule? Even though the Communist government taught you to think about unification, did any of you mainland Chinese think about the benefits of two separate countries? One Communist and one Democracy? Your Communist government is afraid because that'll mean that they've lost to Democracy. Do you mainlanders seriously think that Communism is better than Democracy? If so, I'd like to see your reasons. If not, then why don't you support Democracy in Taiwan, or even move Communist China towards Democracy?

Taiwan wants to separate because China is strangling Taiwan from the rest of the world. Taiwan can either give up Democracy and be assimilated by Communist China or fight for the right to breathe on its own. China could continue to strangle Taiwan until Taiwan dies and no one gains anything or just let Taiwan go and become its economic and political ally. Think, people, think.

BourneNOIR

Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 113

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Why worry?

nostril5 wrote:

As hopeful as that sounds, it's not a valid assumption. Economic sanction does nothing to a country that's becoming an economic drive in the world. Cutting off trade with China will severely damage economy in the rest of the world. China produces a significant amount of products in the world, where do you think they got the money from: foreign investors. In a capitalistic society (i.e. EU, US, etc) money talks, and if you make the investors unhappy, your society will suffer. The world had let a communist regime grown too big, so big that any attempt to control it will hurt everyone else.

nostril5 wrote:

The Chinese ministers are all getting rich on their businesses and bribes. They do not want to be poor again.

Where do you think they stash all their ca$h? All they need to do is to wire/transfer the money to a stable country like the US and emigrate there. These ministers are not stupid people. If they're selfish enough to run businesses and bribes then they won't think twice about leaving the country with their money if something does happen. All that's left would be the mindless brainwashed drones fighting for Communist China thinking that they're following orders and doing their country a favor.

nostril5 wrote:

2. After 20 years, you will have the 3rd generation of people who have lived in a wealthy country. Like all other Western and Asian countries, these people will be sooooooooo different from their parents and grandparents. They will want peace, respect, safety and wealth, but not through using missiles and guns.

You don't need to kill a nation with missiles and guns. As you mentioned before, you can hurt a country just by using politics and economic manipulation. That's how China is trying to strangle Taiwan: by restricting economic development and relationship with the rest of the world. That's why China wants to prevent Taiwan from joining the WTO, WHO, UN, etc. It's NOT because Chinese people should not be separate, it's so that Taiwan will die due to lack of international support and resources.

Maybe in 20 years things will be different, but if China continues to strangle the Democratically active Taiwan like that while gaining economical influence in the world, you will see the sad death of Democracy in East Asia in 20 months.

danbloom

Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 10

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject:

Mandy Wang wrote:

I am a Chinese.I love my country and of course I believe there is only one China.But Taiwan is not weak.we are a family.We will never be apart.

Mandy,
You are Chinese. Of course, you love your country. And of course, there is only one China. One China, and one Taiwan. And one France and one Italy. And yes, Taiwan is not weak, it is a wonderful little country of 23 million wonderful Chinese people who have set up their own country apart from communist China. That's okay. In this world, Mandy, people have free will and choices. Someday, the people inside communist China will also have free will and choices. You, too. Yes, China and Taiwan are part of the huge worldwide Chinese family of people. But they are two very different countries today! Wake up and smell the tea!

danbloom

Joined: 02 Nov 2003
Posts: 10

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Taiwan is a part of China. FOR EVER

Canonnier wrote:

I wanna ask Taiwan people a question: You speak Chinese, you write in Chinese, how can you say that you are not Chinese?
You got black hair, brown eyes, yellow skin, so ARE YOU CHINESE?!
yes you are.
If you wanna be a person who is not chinese, you invent your own language, never speak chinese, DO YOU DARE???
Stop day dreaming!!!

Cannonier:
Calm down. Many people around the world live in countries where they speak English as the first language: the USA, Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa. They all speak the same language. But they are not citizens of the SAME country.

This is true of China and Taiwan too. Two different countries, which share a common culture from long ago, but now they have gone their separate ways; China became a communist dictatorship and Taiwan became a democracy. They are both good countries. China is a good country. Relax. Give a little respect to Taiwan, too.

simplyblessedwithlove

Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 125
Location: bay area, california

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject:

BourneNOIR wrote:

simplyblessedwithlove wrote:

I thought I had it correct. What did I miss? Confused

I think mango_lover's reply was more directed towards the other guy... except that the lease of Hong Kong to Great Britain was 99 years, not 50, not 100.

Hey, thanks. For a second there I thought I was wrong. Wink

_________________
Len T.

simplyblessedwithlove

Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 125
Location: bay area, california

Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Taiwan is a part of China. FOR EVER

danbloom wrote:

Canonnier wrote:

True that! True that! Cool

_________________
Len T.

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